The scandal of the state of private renting in the UK

[cruikshank]

Housing benefit going to private landlords costs the country £9.3 bn a year, yet 1 in 3 private rentals are substandard. Is this a natural consequence of turning over responsibility for the provision of shelter to a largely unregulated private market?

Article here: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/back-to-rising-damp-one-million-rented-homes-in-private-sector-are-substandard-9039201.html

[ReallyTired]

We need to get people to move up north to areas like Newcastle to take the pressure of London. I believe that the north east is in a vicious circle that there are fewer jobs because there are fewer people needing services.

We need to prevent landlords renting out substandard housing in the first place. I said on another thread that each property should have a certificate of fitness for habitation. I would get rid of the energy performance certificate to keep the landlords' costs down. A certificate of fitness for habitation could also replace an inventory for an unfurnished let.

[Isitmebut]

Errr ...the bad news is the shortage of construction workers, in the high tens of thousands, is that in the post crash financial slump, they left the business. The even worse news is that those still in are approaching retirement and around 4 x our current shortage will leave the workforce.

Hopefully no government will replace them with more imported East Europeans to build for England, as that is a zero sum game and kinda defeats the home shortage object.

Apparently home building starts are back at pre crash levels plus and councils are building more; I had some stats a month or so ago which looked promising, if you want them.

[Greengrow]

There are certainly countries now and the past like Cuba, Soviet Russia, North Korea where the state provides all housing.
Even there though corruption seems to creep in and some people end up with better houses than others.

There is a nationwide shortage of bricklayers today's news say as so much building is currently going on - so perhaps we are starting build more of the homes needed.

[Isitmebut]

IfNotThen When .... while you may not "give a shit", the State unprepared for 2.5 million new citizens in the 2000's and not even attempting to build 200,000 homes a year as recommended by the 2004 Barker Report HAS TO - as in allowing/encouraging over 50% of our rental housing provision to be in Private hands - they have worry how many may sell up over the next few years and new landlords replace them.

As to investing in something else, in 1997 Mr Brown took away the dividend tax relief for shares in pension funds, which also killed many company final salary pension schemes. Many saw the writing on the wall, as what has raised around £118 billion in extra revenue, has been estimated to have cost those saving for their own pensions around £240 billion on a 17-year compounded basis.

Maybe if we had seen more 'joined up policy thinking' in pensions, home building and immigration, we wouldn't be having this conversation and you'd have the security of a social/council home.

[wafflyversatile]

Secure housing for all is more important than pension pots for some.

re your previous post isitmebut, I agree that whatever private renting there is should be secure similar to on the continent. But I still think it should be made a less attractive investment, and more council housing built.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Quite frankly, I couldn't give a shit that I am supposed to be funding someone else's pension plans. Maybe they should invest in something else.

[Isitmebut]

IfNotNowThen ..... the problem with relying on Private landlords supplying over 50% of rented properties, is that for many, their BTL is their pension - and the 'social objective' of flat/lower home price rises and no/little returns on rents received over their BTL mortgage costs AND guaranteed long tenancies - is not compatible with that personal savings objective.

Personal Pension Savings were made less attractive after 1997, and seeing the the derisory annual rises in the State pension indicated they could not trust a government on their future financial security, all helped to fuel the growth of private landlords looking for the best return they can get.

“Labour's 'rent cap' row: how renting has grown, in charts”

“The charts and tables here show how property ownership is changing, who is renting – and for how much.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/buy-to-let/10800343/Labours-rent-cap-row-how-renting-has-grown-in-charts.html

“The subjects of renting and buy-to-let spark anger like few others and Labour's latest suggestion – that rent increases could be capped and minimum lengths of tenancies introduced – has added fuel to the controversy.”

“What are the facts behind Britain's growing army of renters? This graph, from the February 2014 English Housing Survey, shows that since 2005 ownership has been in decline relative to renting, which started to climb in 2000.”

“For the first time, according to this year's data, people renting from private landlords outnumbered social renters.”


Clearly the growth in the Private rental market, whether by design or not, was a government initiative, hardly likely to be addressed when they were averaging around 25,000 social homes a year and the immigration figures were climbing.

*Still we are where we are, and as I mentioned earlier within this page. for the majority of tenants CURRENT problems, from the availability, regulation, fair rents up to log term tenancy contracts - is this PART of the answer, that small private landlords are unable, or unwilling, to offer?

“Pru plans foray into UK rented housing”

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a35a999e-9893-11e2-a853-00144feabdc0.html#axzz330iRnEwP

“The Prudential is to become the first UK institutional investor to enter the UK rented housing market in recent times, paving the way for the growth of a corporate-backed letting market at a time of acute housing shortage.”


“The UK’s insurers and pension funds were once among the largest owners of residential property in the UK, but sold off their estates in the years after the second world war due to the intensive management required.”

“Both Legal & General and Aviva are looking at entering the private rented sector; both are understood to have eyed various potential developments and tie-ups with housebuilders.”

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

I think we should meerrge this thread with the other one! Just wanted to point out I am in no way an exceptional tenant, merely a grown up trying to make a nice home. There are millions like me. Beast, you sound like you understand that being a landlord is renting a home, not just investing your cash I whatever gives the highest return of your investment. I bet you get good tenants too. Hmm, interesting correlation there maybe. .

[Isitmebut]

cruikshank .... re jobs, I doubt if all the 1.8 million jobs since 2010 are Zero hours and as you mentioned 'other European countries', we could be worse off - like Italy now in their '3rd dip' recession.

“Eurozone growth at ZERO as gemany slumps, France stagnates.”
www.dw.de/eurozone-growth-at-zero-as-germany-slumps-france-stagnates/a-17854222

“IMF forecasts UK to be fastest-growing advanced economy in 2014”
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5f5ba3ca-132e-11e4-8244-00144feabdc0.html

“UK firms bullish as plans to hire hit 16-year high”
www.cnbc.com/id/101909710

“U.K. companies are set to boost their headcounts in the next three months, with firms in both the manufacturing and services sectors planning to hire new members of staff at the fastest rate in 16 years, a new survey shows.”

We have just had the worst recession in 100-years, and it ALWAYS takes pay rates to rise after any recession and all those high street shops (amongst the thousands of small the medium sized businesses that form the back bone of our economy) did not close as no one was still spending and they could afford higher salaries.

It could be worse, and maybe will again, if politicians have to spend years away from building a sustainable economy splitting the UK's assets/liabilities, with Scotland.

[cruikshank]

GratefulHead that's awful. I hope your friend manages to get sorted soon. Zero hours contracts are an abomination but actually there is even worse out there - I guess you've all heard about the 'rise' in self-employment and how we're turning into a nation of entrepreneurs? Well, a quick scan of the DWP's jobsearch website (which JSA claimants are mandated to register with on pain of losing their benefits) will reveal the truth about that. Pretty much every one to the man jack of them are for companies like Bettaware, Utility Warehouse, b2b selling where you have to buy the stock yourself etc. Those aren't jobs - they are pyramid schemes. No-one ever made money out of them. In other European countries they don't exist. But in the UK not only do they exist but the govt tells jobseekers to approach these companies and take these so-called 'jobs' otherwise their benefits will be cut. And the thing is, people take this 'work' on, even though they will have no income from doing so, because they are desperate to work, which I think makes a nonsense of all this 'skivers' vs 'strivers' horseshite we are sold.

[GratefulHead]

A friend of mine who was long term unemployed (due to serious mental health issues) is now back in work apparently. He has a zero hours contract...they are yet to offer him any work but the Jobcentre couldn't wait to sign him off and add to their statistics of successful employment.

He currently had no work and no income either, nice one Iain Duncan Smith.
He had a letter today telli him his housing benefit and council tax benefit claim was now suspended as he is in work.

If the government are trying to send him right back to square one mental health wise then they are going the right way about it. He is panicking like anything and now needs to get back into them all as he is currently penniless.

Naturally no bugger in our housing benefit office answers the phone so he has to find or borrow the cash to get down there.

But yeah...reducing benefits is a GREAT idea .

Who cares that people like my friend could potentially go under .

[Isitmebut]

wafflyversatile .... we now have a situation where the Private rental sector is larger than council/social.

With that in mind and the points you just made, re the talk of large UK pension and other funds planning/waiting to build and rent properties professionally, maybe for more secure, more rights, and longer term tenancies, that could be part of the supply/demand answer?

[wafflyversatile]

In other European countries tenants are given secure tenancies and more rights. That's why they spend money on maintaining their homes.

[wafflyversatile]

I don't think anyone is scum. That would be awful. People should all be treated well by others. However most people in the country support benefit reductions to aid people into work. Both Labour and Tory voters are huge supporters for this. I am in the majority, not the minority.

If you don't think they are scum why do you want them to suffer?

How would that help people into work? How would that magic jobs out of thin air?

At any one time there are approx. 500k jobs being advertised and somewhere around 9million people looking for work, or more work.

The solution is to build more council housing and policies that don't encourage people to become LLs or foreign investors to invest in UK property.

[Applefallingfromthetree2]

If not-my points about renting property was not meant to be personal. You are clearly an exceptional tenant and your landlord is lucky to have you.

For evidence of poor tenant involvement walk around any area in the UK with a high percentage of rental properties and you will see what I mean.
Rubbish dumped in overgrown gardens , smelly overflowing bins, dirty windows........ Awful for decent tenants!

Incidentally I was brought up on a pretty dire council estate.

[Beastofburden]

if when I read those stories I think even more that LLs should be regulated.

As I said before, I live in jobrelated accommodation so we rent out the house that we will retire to. In 17 years I have witheld 100 for a badly stained mattress. The house has been fully redecorated twice, new carpets and all. There has been one complete new kitchen and several dishwashers, cookers, boilers, etc. We refenced the garden front and back this year as well. The agents are authorised to carry out small repairs immediately (ie, same day if possible, same week without fail) and only come to me if it costs over 500. Obviously we do our annual gas safety check, check the smoke and CO2 alarms, check the electrics annually, etc. I have never had a dispute, never asked anyone to leave. I allowed a dog once and when the tenants left they got their full deposit back as they had cleaned things up immaculately. The current tenants- a family- are in the their fourth year.

I feel so strongly that they are paying me for a professional service and they deserve the best. I want to be able to look them in the eye (if I should meet them) and not be ashamed of myself. I dont want to feel that I am de facto scum because we own one house that we cant currently live in, so we let it out to a family that wants to live there and couldn't otherwise afford it. It's in catchment for a great state comprehensive- that's why it lets well.

Maybe because it's not a business- I am quite happy with the fact that I am able to own somewhere to retire to, I don't expect to make a profit in year. But I believe that ethical private renting can exist.

LLs should be regulated, though. The bad ones are evading tax, ignoring health and safety checks, and ripping folk off. At the same time as building more social housing, let's elimiate them. A register will force them to pay tax- that should deal with quite a few before we start.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

In EU ountries "private renting is something where tenants often pay for repairs and look after properties rather than expecting the state or landlord to do everything."

Hahahaha!

Bless you greengrow for assuming that private tenants don't pay for repairs and maintain their landlords properties.
The amount of re-decorating, gardening, plumbing and even plastering I have done for landlords over the years. In the 20 years I have been privately renting, I have had a place I have been living re decorated by the landlord...once. One flat, and that was the only place I ever lived where the landlord ever fixed anything when asked, and didn't skim at least a hundred smackers off my deposit every time I moved out just for the Hell of it. I was so pathetically grateful for that landlord, who incidentally rented me the flat as a pregnant single woman. I was grateful because he did what he was supposed to do, unlike most landlords.
My last landlord evicted us because I complained about various essential repairs that the flat needed, including severe damp which caused mould to cover one wall, and dodgy electrics. He owned the house for 40 years, but didn't fancy paying a single penny towards its upkeep.
This is not at all an unusual situation. Every renter I know decorates their own house, gardens, and makes small repairs. I would welcome decent long term tenancies, but I don't think it would change much about what tenants already do.

[rainbowinmyroom]

You do realise 80% of those who claim housing benefit are in work, yeah?

[Greengrow]

I don't think anyone is scum. That would be awful. People should all be treated well by others. However most people in the country support benefit reductions to aid people into work. Both Labour and Tory voters are huge supporters for this. I am in the majority, not the minority.

Many of these other EU countries give you ebnefits for a limited period say a year only and they also don't give any benefits to those under age 25 and private renting is something where tenants often pay for repairs and look after properties rather than expecting the state or landlord to do everything. We could certainly move to a model of longer term renting - it is available now. It is quite common for tenants to want a year only though. My daughter for example has tenants whose jobs may move them around the UK so they sign up for a year. The flat above has apparently just been let to a family for I think a year as the tenants again wanted a break piont after a year and in their case it is working father and mother at home with 2 under 5s (no benefits as he has high paid London job and they want the mobility as they are international)

[CantUnderstandNewtonsTheory]

Housing benefit people?! Fuck me Greengrow you're charming I would love to give you some statistics and show you that we're not scum but I think I would be wasting my time.

[WhistlingPot]

I agree Apple. HA/council housing is very hit or miss. We're exceptionally lucky to have been placed in a purpose built small block of flats, not sure when built, probably 70s. It is superbly designed with maximum use of space, large rooms and loads of built in storage, concrete floors etc.

On the other side of town, different story, huge mould problems, thin walls etc.

The new builds going up locally, some of which are social and/or affordable, are tiny, and poor quality. Once you have a bed in you can barely turn round.

[Beastofburden]

Well, a lot of young mothers with children live in hostels and B&B, mini so that ought to cheer greengrow up.

[minifingers]

"Surely the answer to the shortage of 2 beds is keep people in 3 beds but put a separate mother and baby into the 3rd bed room."

Are you mad?


"Plenty of adults with and without children who rely on no state benefits at all house share"

I don't know any families or people with children who share a home with another family. House sharing is workable for so singles and couples (sometimes) but rarely for families.

"so I don't see what is so special about housing benefit people that they get privileges the rest of us don't have and are feather bedded in this way."

What do you suggest? Workhouses?

[rainbowinmyroom]

Things will never change. The economy is a house of cards with property as a linchpin.

There is also this mentality of, if for any reason you cannot afford to or do not own a property, you are a lazy less than who deserves whatever shithole you can hovel under.