Missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 - Thread 5

[KenAdams]

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

[TheHoneyBadger]

a statement that said they had their experts involved in the search and any subsequent investigations would be enough. some reassurance that airport security was consistently high, something! it seems remiss to me. people are still having to fly into that area, people have relatives living and working or travelling in the area. to not address it seems a failure of leadership.

[livingzuid]

I think it was mentioned on an earlier thread that Malaysia had to be the one coordinating and giving out the information. There was quite a lot of frustration that Australia had said something. I think goldie or someone else said that it was right that Malaysia had to be handling it as protocol states that the country of origin for the flight has to coordinate all the efforts.

They are as purple says stuck in a rock and a hard place and with seemingly little support. And as fflonkl points out, they've made mistakes and there will be lessons learned but they aren't equipped to deal with this. Only the US, China and Russia really have the resources to draw on to deal with such a huge search and whether they would have done a better job remains to be seen.

honey I don't know if it would make me feel any better to hear Cameron spouting his usual platitudes! I think the silence has been deafening. Why would a government want to get caught up in this mess? I wouldn't have the Malaysian Acting Transport Minister's job in a million years.

It all sounds like behind the scenes there is a monumental political row going on, and tons of bickering which Malaysia is powerless to prevent. All at the expense of the families.

fflonkl so so true about the Western media. Some reporting has been good but the DM style stories have not been helpful whatsoever.

[difficultpickle]

Isn't it also true that the current Malaysian ruling party has been in power since 1955 and strictly controls the country's media. It means they are just not used to being criticised at all and probably find any criticism, however justified, simply unacceptable.

[DowntonTrout]

I suspect that other governments can offer assurances, until they know that it is accident rather than deliberate, it would be remiss of them to do so. And even if it is accident, finding the cause may involve all aircraft of this type being grounded. Telling everyone air travel is safe only to discover that there is a major fault in an aircraft that has not been picked up in safety checks would not go down well.

Equally, at the moment, the Malaysians are the fall guys. Perhaps the no comment from other governments throws the Malaysians under the bus. The more they tie themselves in knots , the more the rest of the world govts sit back and allow them to do so.

[DowntonTrout]

can't offer assurances

[TheArticFunky]

I'm still thinking cyber- terrorism and if that is the case I don't think we will be told because of the panic that this could cause.

We know it was deliberate so it was either pilot suicide - which I think was unlikely and this doesn't follow the usual pattern. Hijack - unlikely because the checks on passengers came back clear and nobody has claimed responsibility. Cyber terrorism - this would be unprecedented and explain the vagueness and non-committal answers coming out of Malaysia.

[firstchoice]

If it was a hijack scenario, then SinisterSal's scenario would make perfect sense, imo. Turn as the hijackers command, but also put another 'final' destination in, obviously the 'wrong' place, knowing that they would likely all be doomed anyway but that it being 'found' in the sea on the way to the South Pole would let the world know that something had gone desperately wrong as the pilots would never clearheadedly have programmed in such a destination.
Trouble is that could fit hypoxia too?

I do think the Malaysian Government is way way out of its depth. I think there will be all sorts of covert and overt pressures from the superpowers potentially involved too and I have no doubt the US would withhold information from Malaysia if it deemed necessary, and Russia and China too. It actually needs an independent organisation to look into this .

I also think that, in addition to individual countries prestige and resources there is the possibility that vested interests may have a part to play. Pulling all 777's across the world of that age and model would be hugely expensive, wouldn't it?. One would hope that that wouldn't be a factor, but there are plenty of examples of manufacturers (cars, baby buggies etc) 'only' pulling / adapting certain models after months/years of customer complaint / accidents? I am sure that Goldie might be able to reassure me on that point, so it might not be relevant - hope not!

I cant imagine those poor souls are still alive so I hope they find wreckage so at least the families have closure on that aspect.

[firstchoice]

sorry, should say I meant that SinisterSal's scenario would also fit cyber-terrorism too - hijacker would not necessarily need to be on plane holding gun to pilots head, as it were.

Agree about Western Govts (and Russia and China too) sitting back and watching the Malaysian Govt tie itself in ever tighter knots, sadly, although I for one am glad we are sending a ship to offer help but not having to listen to Cameron's meaningless bleats.

[DowntonTrout]

I don't think we do know it was deliberate anymore.

All the evidence, in the first few days, pointed to deliberate acts. Much of that information has now been retracted or was initially presented as certain but is now uncertain (how many waypoints, timings, altitude, radar reports.) the Malaysians stated the fact that the plane made the initial turn back was deliberate, from there on it has become hazy.

[TheElementsSong]

fflonki, your post about the Western media was spot on. Very well said! (And I'm really no fan of the Malaysia ruling party).

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

"I don't think we do know it was deliberate anymore."

I agree.

[VivaLeBeaver]

I was rather morbidly wondering if the plane is never found how long will relatives have to wait before they can be declared dead. For missing persons in the uk I believe its normally 7 years. But in such a high profile case can it be done sooner?

If dh disappeared I'd be stuffed if I had to wait 7 years to access his bank accounts. I know that sounds awful but Id struggle to pay the mortgage, etc.

[fflonkl]

HoneyBadger I think reassurances about experts have been made almost every day, and also that experts from all over are involved. But what can you do if people prefer to believe you are lying? WRT airport security I actually think there are plenty of people who fly on false passports - it's only in recent years that the UK even checked the passports of departing passengers. Even now they only seem to give a cursory glance at passports (from my experience anyhow).

difficultpickle yes that's right. It's been a "we know best" attitude for a long time. However online media is not as tightly regulated and there are plenty that are highly critical of the government - I used to write for one!

[DowntonTrout]

fflonki I don't remember the last time I flew anywhere from the UK when I didn't have to provide Advance Passenger Information. I don't know if that's just data gathering or if it's put through checks prior to flying.

[MunchMunch]

Did I see on sky news at about 8am (in the yellow banner across the bottom) that Australia were looking for survivors? I put the news back on at about 9.30 and there was no mention of it but my brother also mentioned it so I can only assume that they've taken it off.

Why would Australia be looking for survivors when they can't even find potential debris at about 79ft long. Do they know more than they are letting on?

[TheresAHedgehogInMyPocket]

I have been following these threads and learning a lot. Thank you to all who shared their knowledge with us.

I do feel for the families and hope that they get an answer one way or another.

[livingzuid]

Ooh now we talked about battery types:

'It emerged during the press conference that the plane was carrying lithium ion batteries that can be unstable at altitude leading potentially to a fire.'

Guardian update.

[livingzuid]

Don't have a clue how significant that is but I remember a discussion on batteries.

[member]

Morning! Just catching up as had to go and see dd in assembly this morning.

I really, really think that there MUST be newer/clearer satellite images by now that can somehow visualise even when there is dense cloud cover? Or am I being naively optimistic?!

[DowntonTrout]

It has been rumoured a few times that the plane was carrying lithium ion batteries.

I don't believe that has been confirmed before. As far as I know the only cargo confirmed before now was Mangosteens.

[member]

I think lithium ion batteries are a well known source of ignition/arcing & there are strict rules covering their carriage by air.

I really must step away - I have new settees being delivered later today & haven't moved the old ones out/cleared the route of furniture!

[cargotrousers]

The longer this goes on, the more I wonder if this will go down as one of the big unsolved mysteries of our time. Mobile phones and trans-continental flights make us forget how big our planet is and just how much of it is covered by ocean and maybe that there are still huge areas that are not being constantly watched, although governments would have us believe otherwise.

[DowntonTrout]

This is just another example of inconsistent information.

They have been asked many times in press conferences about the cargo manifest, came up with tons of mangosteens but nothing else was mentioned. Then they just slip in a small quantity of batteries, despite avoiding the question before now.

I'm not sure they understand how their words are scrutinised and how it looks to not give accurate information that they have had all along, but to let it come out in drips and drabs.

[DieselSpillage]

I am starting to wonder if there never actually was a plane at all...

All this searching and media speculation is proving remarkably effective as a distraction from what's going on in the Ukraine ....Also an excellent opportunity to find out what radar capabilities lots of countries have.

Is it not a little bit strange that a plane heading to China is now thought to be in one of the remotest, inaccessible parts of the globe..

[Spacefrog35]

Diesel - I don't think it's likely they could have drafted in the distraught families as a cover up but certainly the 'concerns' you raise are one of the reasons I feel sorry for the Malaysian officials. I know the region fairly well, and usually would feel no sympathy for them but as I said on the last thread the political wrangling's between who is prepared to admit they know what hampers the search effort massively.

& I now really, really want a mangosteen