'Cut the green c**p'. Has Cameron had a Damascene moment?

[claig]

"David Cameron has ordered ministers to ditch the ‘green cp’ blamed for driving up energy bills and making business uncompetitive, it is claimed.

...

The source said: ‘He’s telling everyone, “We’ve got to get rid of all this green cp.” He’s absolutely focused on it.’

[[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510936/Cut-green-c-p-Camerons-private-view-energy-taxation-horrify-environmental-campaigners.html]

Some of us have been saying this for years. But there is always praise in Heaven and among the public for a politician who repenteth and seeth the light!

[claig]

'some of the solutions that are being tried to cut emissions are not great'

agree wth you completely. Maybe Cameron has seen the light as well and that is why he is reported as saying 'cut the green c**p'. We can only hope.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

Incidentally, I think it's important not to take a skeptical view on the science because one doesn't like the policy response to the science.

I personally agree that much current policy on climate change is ineffective and some is actively counterproductive. But as for the science: Geek put it rather beautifully: "Ultimately the Universe does not care for politics and dogma - we must find out about it and adapt ourselfs to it not the other way round".

So as I see it, we have:

• It's happening
• Current response isn't good enough

And the appropriate next step is

• Let's fix the response

Not, "Let's tell ourselves it isn't happening"

As my favourite Talmudic quotes say:
"Im lo achshav, eimatai? [If not now, when?]"
and
"It is not incumbent upon you to complete the work [of perfecting the world], but neither are you at liberty to desist from it" (2:21)

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

But then you must worry about what will happen if it turns out somehow that all the scientists are right, and climate change is catastrophic?

[claig]

'So Claig... do you think the scientists who propound climate change as a) real and b) happening are lying, or wrong?'

I think both apply to some scientists.

[claig]

'But then you must worry about what will happen if it turns out somehow that all the scientists are right, and climate change is catastrophic?'

Not at all, because I don't believe it one iota. It will all come out in the wash. The lies will be exposed. 'Cut the green c**p' is only the start. King Canute couldn't stop the tide and the elite can't stop the truth.

[claig]

'Is it that they are all in the pay of the elite, so they make shit up because they want old people to be cold and hungry,'

They don't even understand what the elite's aims are. The elite didn't tell them. They are scientists and the elite are not scientists but are political.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

What makes you so sure though - because it's really really unlikely, surely, that everyone who sees the research as suggesting this, is wrong or a liar, isn't it?

I'd love some of your optimism, but I'm not seeing what it's based on!

[claig]

I have to leave for a while now. Back in a few hours' time.

[claig]

'What makes you so sure though - because it's really really unlikely, surely, that everyone who sees the research as suggesting this, is wrong or a liar, isn't it?'

Lots of scientists don't believe it, it's just that the BBC mainly show the ones who do as well as the polar bear.

To understand the policies of the elite, you must understand politics. It's no use believing dodgy dossiers or fiddled data or massaged reports or spin meisters.

Back later, must go.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

And are you not at all concerned that you have a vested interest in shooting the messenger because you don't like the message?

As I said before, and as you've confirmed, you don't have a view on most other scientific issues, just the ones that affect you personally ... where, by the most remarkably convenient coincidence, your view of the truth (climate change isn't happening, and scientists working in this field are lying and wrong) is perfectly aligned with the answer you would have found most palatable!

I think it's time to admit the truth. For me personally, this goes as follows: I wish to buggery climate change wasn't happening. I got to travel once on Virgin Upper Class to New York and it was bloody great and if I could afford it and it had no climate change consequences, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'd really like to leave the heating on as much as possible in the winter. Gadgets are fun. But. But but but. The scientific consensus is clear: we've stuffed up the thermostat and the kind of lifestyle I'd like to lead is going to cause more problems. It's sucky, but I can't pretend it's not real. And mitigation now is going to be a lot less painful than mitigation in the future.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

This notion of "lots of scientists don't believe in climate change" reminds me of nothing so much as that group of Republicans in the hours prior to Obama's re-election who just point-blank could not accept that the polls were telling the truth, because it went against their worldview.

It's settled science. The research has long since moved from "is this happening?" to questions of degree - when, where, how quickly, etc.

There are whole journals published on the topic. Journals who are subject to ad hominem attacks only because they focus on climate change, while their sister journals are ignored completely. Like Nature climate change.

[DoctorTwo]

It will also stop taxpayer money redistribution from the poor to the rich

No it won't, that's been happening for over 30 years now. It's just more blatant now. There are a couple of ways to ensure the bastards don't steal any more of your money though. Precious metals and Bitcoin.

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

Eh? Precious metals are just another asset class, like housing, jewellery, fine art, wine, financial investments, etc. There are some minor tax advantages, but not materially different from other investments.

www.moneywise.co.uk/investing/investment-guides/15-questions-to-ask-investing-precious-metals

[claig]

'Who do you think is just misguided, and who do you think is actually lying'

There was a time when the elite of the day, the Church, amd most scientists believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth, it was known as the geocentric model. The elite of the day, the Church, even prosecuted scientists who argued differently.

Today our elite are pushing the anthropogenic climate catstrophe theory as opposed to the old elite's geocentric theory, and many scientists are on board and agree with the elite.

When it comes to who is misguided and who is lying, I think that the scientists who believe the anthropogenic theory are misguided and the elite are lying. I don't think the elite believe a word of it or have changed their energy consumption, but just use it to trick the masses.

[claig]

Precious metals are no protection from socialists and puppets of the elite.

"Roosevelt's gold confiscation: could it happen again?

FDR forcibly purchased American investors' bullion during the Great Depression."

"By virtue of the authority vested in me by ... an Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes ... I, Franklin D Roosevelt ... do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and ... do hereby prohibit the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations..."


These are the opening phrases of Executive Order 6102, issued by FDR 80 years ago on Friday. The order has become notorious among gold investors. Some fear something similar could happen again, that their government might seek to take their gold away as part of some trumped up "solution" to a "national economic emergency".


Events in Cyprus, where at one point it seemed that the state was going to levy a 6.75pc tax on "insured" deposits below €100,000, have served only to heighten fears that private wealth can, under certain circumstances, simply be appropriated.


www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/9968494/Roosevelts-gold-confiscation-could-it-happen-again.html

[claig]

'Some fear something similar could happen again, that their government might seek to take their gold away as part of some trumped up "solution" to a "national economic emergency".

The elite also use 'emergencies' as justification.

An "economic emergency" justifies taking people's wealth, and a "climate catastrophe emergency" justifies cutting people's living standards and lifestyles and transitioning people to a more 'sustainable' future of post-industrial low growth, financial fat cats and wealth transfer from the middle and working classes of richer nations to the elite and to poorer countries.

[claig]

meant to say
always use
not
also use

[HomeHelpMeGawd]

It's telling to note you studiously not responding to my last several posts, claig

[claig]

HomeHelp, I will respond.

'And are you not at all concerned that you have a vested interest in shooting the messenger because you don't like the message? '

I have no vested interest. I just believe that the messenger is reading the message of the elite and I don't believe their message.

I find myself more in agreement with the alleged words of Cameron i.e. 'cut the green c*p'. Cameron seems to have made a volte-face, whereas I have always believed it was c*p spun by spinners and puppets with their pagers on our media., just as I believed that 'hug-a-hoodie' and the Dance with Huskies was crap too.

[claig]

'As I said before, and as you've confirmed, you don't have a view on most other scientific issues, just the ones that affect you personally'

I don't think this is real, I don't think it is a scientific issue. I don't believe the 'Hockey Stick' model and the DVD produced by billionaire, Al Gore. I believe this is political.

[claig]

"Schools will have to issue a warning before they show pupils Al Gore's controversial film about global warming, a judge indicated yesterday.

The move follows a High Court action by a father who accused the Government of 'brainwashing' children with propaganda by showing it in the classroom.

Stewart Dimmock said the former U.S. Vice-President's documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, is unfit for schools because it is politically biased and contains serious scientific inaccuracies and 'sentimental mush'."





www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-485336/Schools-warn-Gore-climate-film-bias.html

[claig]

This is a report from 2010 about an IPCC report of 2007. What took them so long, all the experts and scientists and elite, to spot the error?

'The UN's climate science body has admitted that a claim made in its 2007 report - that Himalayan glaciers could melt away by 2035 - was unfounded.

The admission today followed a New Scientist article last week that revealed the source of the claim made in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was not peer-reviewed scientific literature – but a media interview with a scientist conducted in 1999. Several senior scientists have now said the claim was unrealistic and that the large Himalayan glaciers could not melt in a few decades.'

www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jan/20/ipcc-himalayan-glaciers-mistake

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

I think your definition of 'elite' needs some unpacking - are the Green Party the elite, or the Tories, or both? It seems to be something to do with Old Etonians, but also something about left-wing Guardian readers - have I got that right?

Yes, people did used to think the sun went around the earth - but I think your position has more in common with the Flat Earthers than it does with any elite-bashing truth-seeking trail-blazing quest for truth.

[claig]

'I got to travel once on Virgin Upper Class to New York and it was bloody great and if I could afford it and it had no climate change consequences, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.'

Don't deny yourself. Blair and Branson and Brown and Cameron and all of the elite don't stop flyng around the world. Don't curtail your lifestyle and fall for the con, while the elite make merry.

Some of them probably get their heating expenses all paid for, even to possibly heat their stables, maybe out of taxpayer money, while pensioners and people on low incomes worry themselves sick about how they will be able to afford their energy bills with the included 'ecotaxes'.

[claig]

'are the Green Party the elite, or the Tories, or both? It seems to be something to do with Old Etonians, but also something about left-wing Guardian readers - have I got that right?'

No, they are all puppets. The elite are the uber-wealthy billionaires and trillionaires who do not appear on the stage, but merely direct the actors from the wings.