Why I No Longer Feel Comfortable Wearing a Poppy

[Geckos48]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/madeleine-fry/poppy-day_b_4169581.html

very eloquently put. Exactly how I feel about the whole debacle.

November 11th should be for those who selflessly gave their lives in the World Wars, not those who chose to fight dubious campaigns abroad.

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

Agree kim147

but surely it is still better to remember than forget?

[LtAllHallowsEve]

That was actually a particularly ignorant statement wasn't it Johnny? The tanks in Iraq proved so useless that they didn't take any to Afghanistan!

[ZombieMonkeyButler]

I do not support (and have never supported) the Iraq & Afghan wars.

However, I do support the armed forces who have been sent there (under orders) to fight.

How many of them joined up thinking "oh, yippee, we might get sent to be killed in a pointless oil-related war" or, at their interview, "well, I'm really hoping to get my legs blown off by a bomb laid by Al-Qaeda".

Governments, rightly or wrongly, will send troops to wars. They will not ask the general public whether they consider that war to be just (see Iraq conflict). Young men & women have no way of being aware when they sign up whether the future war they might be expected to fight in is going to be "pointless" or a "matter of national security". However, once they have signed up, they have no choice about going where they are sent (please correct me if they do in fact have a get out clause). They deserve no less respect because their government were twats and sent them somewhere they should not have.

How do people feel about the soldiers who lost their lives in more "pointless" wars whilst on National Service? National Service being akin to conscription.

I am not for a moment, wanting to undermine or lessen the actions or sacrifices of those conscripted to serve in the WWs. As a mother of 2 teenage boys now, the whole scenario is just too horrific for words. It goes without saying they have my complete respect.

However, what would happen if young people no longer joined the armed forces? The government would not stop getting involved in pointless wars so where would the troops come from? National Service again? Conscription again? I am exceedingly grateful that there are people willing to sign up so that those who do not want to do not have to.

Someone killed whilst performing the duties ordered of them by their government deserves respect & recognition in my world.

To me, the red Poppy is a simple sign of remembrance for lost service personnel. Not something to start a debate about.

[Morgause]

I wear a white Poppy as well.

My father lost 3 cousins in WW1 and he would never wear a red poppy and none of my family do. It used to have Haig's name on it and they all blamed him for the deaths of their children.

He was a volunteer in WW2 because he believed that Hitler had to be stopped, he was in a reserved occupation and didn't have to go. After he came home but he would never wear a red poppy or parade with his medals which, he felt, glorified war.

He believed WW2 was a "just war" but no war we've been involved with since has been "just" in his eyes, or mine.

I would support a day to remember the 2 world wars.

[Xoanon]

AuntieStella You're wrong, it was the No More War movement which formerly merged with the PPU in the 1930s. Fenner Brockway was one of the main leaders. A great man. Unashamedly pacifist. But the never actually produced any white poppies and since they don't exist any more they aren't 'beneficiaries'. You seem to have lapped up some propaganda. Incidentally - the total amount raised by the white poppy appeal is about the same as the salary earned by the CEO of the RBL. And the beneficiaries of the white poppy appeal are potentially everyone - if the dream of no more war ever becomes a reality. Who wouldn't want that? The only way we can get it is changing hearts and minds.

[Xoanon]

skyler It;s not. She's just spouting propaganda. So sad because it's perfectly possible for the two poppies to be complementary if you want to view things in that way - if you genuinely feel the only way to adequately remember the awful loss of life from conflicts round the world is to wear the symbol irrevocably associated with the Haig Fund then you can still also support the dream of no MORE war by wearing a white poppy too. I know people who wear both.

[LtAllHallowsEve]

The only beneficiaries of the funds raised by the PPU are the PPU themselves, as it says on their website and as you were informed when you posted the same this time last year.

[Laceyshoes]

November 11th is symbolic to WW11 as we all know. It is important that remembrance day is marked on that day. It is not important that all armed forces are remembered on that day.

Yes, it is Armistice Day. Originally intended to commemorate the millions of conscripted men who lost their lives in World War 1. The loss of a whole generation of young men, from many nations, most of whom had no choice as to whether they took part in the fighting or not.

It's the same with the casualties of World War 2. Most of those millions of young men had no option as they were conscripted.

This exceptional loss of life and the impact it had on every generation and section of our society is what Remembrance Day has always been about, in my view. Not about later, smaller and more controversial conflicts that have only involved professional soldiers.

[Xoanon]

The PPU uses the funds raised from the poppies to fund its pacifist work. Rather better than paying the RBL chief executive, I'd say. The PPU is a campaigning and education charity and it uses the funds raised to further its campaigns and education work.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Younger people may have some excuse for not knowing these things, but we went to Iraq the first time because they were invading other countries we were obligated to defend.
We went to The Falklands when they were invaded by another country with no rights to their land at all. The people of the Falklands have affirmed several times that they wish to remain part of the UK and the Argentinians have made it clear they don't want the people there, just the land.

Those claiming the Falklands war was wrong because of distance should read a map that shows which islands and territories belong to which nation. Lots of countries have islands that belong to them. Some of the islands round our coast may well be closer to another country than to us, but I hear no clamour to give them up.

There have been wars I've been far from happy about, but if you want people to fight to the death for your safety you can't pick and choose when to honor them. They don't get to pick which conflicts they are sent to.

For those who wish to split soldiers into those who enlisted and those who were conscripted then what about those who volunteered and died in WW1 and WW2? Can we spit on their graves since clearly they were in it for the fun of shooting people right?

[flatpackhamster]

Another Remembrance Sunday, another shitty article written by another leftist unable to grasp the difference between the members of the forces who died in wars and the governments who started them.

Why do we have to go through this every year?

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

Cop out. And as someone who worked very closely with both WW1 and WW2 veterans for years, a cop out that massively pisses me off. I wish you could have spoken to some of those WW1 veterans and seen how important the poppy was to them.

[LtAllHallowsEve]

The Poppy Appeal raises millions more than the £95K you are complaining about. Why don't you google the wages of all the other major charities of the UK - if you do you will see that the CEs of those charities are on similar amounts. Do you work for free, or do you draw a wage?

[SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter]

"Those who ‘abjure’ violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf."

OP, I believe George Orwell had people like you in mind when he wrote this ^

[LtAllHallowsEve]

Seconded MrsDV

[Grennie]

My grandfather used to refuse to wear a poppy. Originally when the poppy appeal started, the money only helped Officers or seniors. It did not help the ordinary soldier.

I know it is no longer like that. But the poppy appeal's history is extremely classist.

[chibi]

i personally find all of it highly problematic, and i feel uncomfortable wearing a poppy

i can appreciate why others choose to, and would hope that they could respect my choice similarly, as it harms none.

[ZombieMonkeyButler]

"Competitive poppy wearing" . Ha.

[ZombieMonkeyButler]

"vomit their emotions all over facebook and twitter". You really are on form today MrsDV

[flatpackhamster]

Grennie

My grandfather used to refuse to wear a poppy. Originally when the poppy appeal started, the money only helped Officers or seniors. It did not help the ordinary soldier.

I know it is no longer like that. But the poppy appeal's history is extremely classist.

I can't find any evidence of that extraordinary claim anywhere.