I'm disgusted by Osbourne jumping on the Phillpott bandwagon created by the DM

[aufaniae]

So, yesterday there was outrage after the pictures of dead children were used in the most cynical way by the Daily Mail to sell the idea that welfare "scroungers" are evil, with Phillpott branded a "vile product" of the benefit system by the DM.

What's our government's response today?

George Osborne, when asked about the claims, said a debate was needed about whether the state should "subsidise lifestyles like that". link

To add insult to injury, he was visiting Derby when he said this (which is where the children lived and died).

How fucking insensitive can you get?

[crossparsley]

Sorry jennywren but I don't think his surviving children have the luxury of peeling apart your "may" not have been born rather than "should" not. Especially if arguments like this - however nuanced and AN Wilson certainly was not on R4 this morning - are used to justify policy changes on CB. They are living, grieving and probably very traumatised human beings and parts of the press, and thoroughgoing oafs on radio and TV, are saying that if the benefits system was changed then there wouldn't be so many of them alive.

Think what you like - we all do - but please remember that saying it will may contribute to the ongoing suffering of some people who definitively don't deserve any more.

[PeachActiviaMinge]

The Judge on the case in court stated that the crime was committed for revenge not for money and that the fact that Philpott was getting benefits had no bearing on the case.

Technically every single person claiming tax credits in any form is "benefits scum" after all they're all benefiting from the welfare state.

[crossparsley]

Oops definitely

[Molehillmountain]

I'm so glad our government's benefit reforms will in one fell swoop sort out psychopaths and controlling bullies. Genius! All those years of psychiatrists trying and failing. George Osborne - I salute you. They must clearly have done research to find the section in the Venn diagram showing people who are controlling, criminal bullies and also on huge amounts of benefits. I'm sure it's huge.

[SherbetVodka]

if you gave someone like the Philpotts £500k a year it still wouldn't of been enough to save those children it wasn't money he wanted it was revenge

Exactly. His crime, of killing his children, is the only thing that's relevant.

And it had nothing to do with benefits. Revenge murder of children by their parents is not financially motivated.

[Wossname]

I'm pretty sure, having read the judge's summing up or whatever it's called, that wanting to retain benefits was not the reason he wanted custody of the children. He wanted control of their mother and the only way to regain that was to try and get her children.

Aufaniae, I really think your posts are great. Thank you for continuing to post despite knowing that at some point the same old people will show up and deny what is happening/justify sustained attacks on the poor and vulnerable.

[DreamingOfTheMaldives]

Where the "head" of the household is a controlling abuser, that means no independent access to money for people being abused.

That's very true - one person could well be left holding the purse strings and if that person is an addict/controlling/abusive, the other partner and the children will certainly suffer.

[DreamingOfTheMaldives]

Peach and Wossname - I retract my comment then about Phillpott's motivation being partly benefit related. I wasn't making the point to criticise benefit claimants in any way - hope it didn't come across like that.

[Wossname]

No probs, Dreaming

[FasterStronger]

Revenge murder of children by their parents is not financially motivated

revenger murder has nothing to do with this case. you might want to read about it.

[Wossname]

Killing these children (accidentally or not) was not finincially motivated in any, as stated by the judge.

How's that?

[merrymouse]

Going along with the idea for a moment that cutting benefits would be atleast a partially effective contraception, and assuming that the system could be structured so that those who are made redundant or become disabled are still supported, please could somebody explain what is supposed to happen to those children who are born despite benefit cuts?

[MrsVamos]

YADNBU.

Osbourne disgusts me anyway. The man has no conscience.

[merrymouse]

On another note it is interesting to note that Anne widdacombe is seeming to be able to speak more sensibly about this than the chancellor.

Worrying for the economic outlook though.

[PeachActiviaMinge]

Really FasterStronger? You might want to tell the Judge and all the news websites how you know better then.

"Philpott was convicted of manslaughter along with his wife Mairead and friend Paul Mosley over an arson revenge plot that went wrong." BBC News

The house in Derby was set ablaze in last May as part of a conspiracy in which Mr Philpott hoped to frame a former lover, Lisa Willis, for the arson as revenge for her leaving him and taking five children with her. Orchard said the plot to set the fire had gone "disastrously wrong" because it spread too quickly. - Guardian

"who never meant to hurt the youngsters, who died when set fire to the house in a botched attempt to gain revenge on his former mistress." - Telegraph

"Philpott had been laying the foundation work for what became the central motive in the case: his attempt to frame his former lover whose decision to walk out on him had humiliated him and left him furiously flailing for revenge." - Independant

[FasterStronger]

Peach - the whole case is about manslaughter. there were no murders.

and he did not intend to kill them. he intended to save them and play the hero...

[ouryve]

It's a cheap shot by Osborne, who spectacularly misses the point that these children were failed by a society that did nothing to prevent their exploitation - not helped by the funds being eroded from the services designed to do that.

I'm doubting that Philpott is the type to keep it in his trousers just in case a baby came along that he wouldn't get any extra money for. It's speculation, of course, but he probably regards contraception as an attack on his virility - something that takes power and control away from him.

[TheCalvert]

Is it not a good thing that this will be subjected to a parliamentary debate? I think Osborn has been extremely clumsy with his words, but surely rather than that horrible man benefitting from the benefits that were available for his wife and mistress, that any emotional, financial etc. abuse be highlighted.

I've not been eloquent, but what I'm getting at is that men like Philpott be kicked into touch and not benefit from the state, when their partners have any and all assistance available to them to get to safety.

P.S. please can we ban the Daily Mail. Horrid rag.

[Allthingspretty]

Ynbu i too am disgusted but sadly not surprised by this government. Shame they dont act more on tax dodgers etc

[Nancy66]

He hasn't jumped on the bandwagon. He was asked a question and he answered it.

[WhinyCrabbyPeople]

Exactly, Nancy. How is he cashing in by answering a question put to him about something that is in the collective consciousness at the moment?

I still don't fully understand the outrage about the way certain newspapers have reported on it. I've never heard anyone on Mumsnet ever say anything to the effect of 'benefits scum' or all the other horrible things that get bandied about when these cases come to light (or perhaps I've not read those threads). We all agree that what has happened with the Philpott children was a terrible tragedy but I don't think a meaningful discussion can be had about how it could have been prevented without mentioning the fact that the adults in the case were grossly abusing your benefits system. And that they were not unique in that.

[crossparsley]

Have emailed my MP links to this and other threads. Sad to say but Pamela Nash did not win on Today this morning. Would be great if we could all do the same, with tailored to ConscientiouLibDem/Labour/PC/SNP/ other cover email

So angry and upset - usually find the DM a bit risible and soiling but this is poisonous

[flippinada]

Do people really think, having read the reports, that this crime has anything whatsoever to do with benefits?

If benefits were so important to him, surely he'd have done his utmost to preserve the revenue source?