Lance Armstrong.

[diddl]

What on earth is going on?

If he hasn´t failed a drug test, how can he be found guilty just because he can´t be bothered to fight any more?

Is it an admission of guilt?

If the USADA has evidence-where is it-why haven´t they produced it or is it all just rumour/hearsay?

[mummytime]

If you want to know how Lance managed not to get caught then you just have to read David Millar's book, testing has got much better (at least in cycling).

The harm he has done was also shown in Nicola Cooke's retirement speech.

[IreneR]

I've been dismayed by the amount of support for him here in the US. So many people willing to shrug off LA's actions for a host of feeble reasons. He seems arrogant and awful to me. I'm all for forgiveness in cases of just about anything, but now I just want him to Go Away.

[difficultpickle]

He got a pretty sympathetic hearing on Oprah so hardly surprising that he has a lot of support in the US. I wonder how many of his supporters actually know the full objective story rather than the lies LA has told?

[LittleAbruzzenBear]

Thanks for that link Mummy. That statement made me very sad. I loved cycling as a child and was told by parents and teachers that girls don't cycle in the Tour. To think where we are now and nothing has changed that much for female cyclists and the damage LA has done. He seemed so matter of fact in that interview, but IMO, not sorry.

[TheDailyWail]

He wants to compete again. I think they should let him, then when results are posted he is not mentioned. If he wins, he should be overlooked. When he demands a medal like the rules state, they say "Lance, the rules are for those who respect them, medals are for those who use sheer hard graft and training to get them there. You don't deserve a reward and in our minds you will remain a non-competitor for ever more"

[ColinFirthsGirth]

There is a wealth of evidence over the years to suggest that Lance Armstrong did indeed use blood doping and EPO etc. This is nothing new, he has been very cunning and has known how to avoid drug tests etc and knew exactly how to play the game. The British riders on the other hand were and are largely clean including Bradley Wiggins - it has not been part of the culture of British cycling to blood dope and take drugs.

Incidentally there has also been suspicion about his charity too - apparently the charity spends 60% of their money on "admin costs" ummmm corrupt anyone?

He is a lying cheat

[Salbertina]

Irene- so why are so many people in US supportive, do you find? Quite how he won them over I don't know.

[difficultpickle]

very moving interview with David Walsh on Sportsweek this morning. His son was killed in a cycling accident aged 12. Armstrong said that was the only reason Walsh went after him. Absolutely appalling behaviour from Armstrong. Jail would be too good a place for him.

[DuchessOfAvon]

Yes , I heard that interview with David Walsh too. Very sad.

On one level, in terms of the drug-taking, Lance was not doing anything differently to a lot of the peloton - Jan Ullrich, Bjarne Riis etc...

What sets him apart from those peers was:

• the imposition of that regime on others in his teams. He tries to say that he was only the Leader of the team and could not sack teammates for refusing to comply. He forgot to mention that he was a part-owner of the team and could (and did) get rid of team mates. Oprah talked of the pressure to "make the team" - she forgot to mention that these were people's livelihoods. He held power over their income.
  
• the reach in to the UCI. The fact he evaded positive tests and was able to direct testing towards his competitors as Tyler alleges.
  
• the implacable determination to bring down anyone who gainsayed him - he destroyed people's lives, he had them followed, he had their emails and phones monitored. He physically and emotionally threatened countless people.
  

He admits nothing that isn't outside the statute of limitations.
He expresses no true remorse because he had no empathy and is incapable of true remorse.
He is still attempting to control the sport, his image, his income - and to some extent, is still succeeding.

He makes my blood run cold.

[difficultpickle]

Hopefully this link for his article will work.

I hope everyone on this thread reads this and I defy anyone no to be deeply moved by David Walsh's words.

[DuchessOfAvon]

ANd I forgot to add the lying under oath bit.

Off to read bisjo's link.

[MadameCastafiore]

What I don't understand is how those people he sued for saying he took drugs and was a cheat can't now have him locked up for lying under oath?

Surely bringing proceedings against someone for slander or whatever it was should be illegal or at least be a criminal matter once found out that they were not lying after all.

It was obvious he was a druggie and cheating or he would have said he did not take drugs rather than always saying he had never been 'found' to have taken drugs?

[difficultpickle]

Sunday Times are suing him. Statute of Limitations applies to perjury. He says he didn't cheat in his comeback tours and the SoL applies to his earlier tours. He has been very careful in what he has 'admitted' to.

I already had a low opinion of him from what I read previously. However today's Sunday Times article (which is not hidden behind their paywall) is one of the most compelling pieces of sports journalism I have ever read.

[coldinthesun]

Yeah thats the thing that gets me. Armstrong does not think the bit about lying under oath, bullying and ruining careers etc matters.

His flippant joke about Betsy Andreu pretty much represents the whole thing and his total lack of comprehension. He is still trying to have a cheap dig at her even now.

He is still only seeing himself as having done the same as those who got banned for 6 months at getting caught. He is still incapable of seeing the difference.

He thinks his ban is unfair compared to others, not realising his actions are just not comparable to others.

Sickening in the extreme.

[EldritchCleavage]

Statute of Limitations applies to perjury

Not in England. He can't be prosecuted because he isn't here to be arrested and charged. If he came to the UK (which he won't) he'd be just as liable to arrest as Jeffrey Archer was.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Just wandered onto this thread by accident as it's on DOTD

My view ? I don't really get why everyone is so obsessed with sport, so why people are so surprised and upset.

But obviously I get that drug taking does rather ruin any sport.

Did enjoy the Olympics and Paralympics but that was probably more as a national event than for the sport in it's own right.

[AitchTwoOhOneTwo]

lol

[IreneR]

What I've seen and heard tends to be of the "everybody else dopes; why pick on Lance?" variety, or "but he does so much for charity!!" One guy even said that Lance's detracters were just jealous of his incredible talent...?!?!?!?!

Admittedly, I live in an area where cycling and cyclists are popular, so perhaps people have more faith in what they want to believe than what is true.

I've never paid much attention to any of it, to be honest, but having just read an interview with Kathy LeMond wife of the only American who really won the TdF Lance sounds perfectly terrible: threatening, harrassing, menacing.

I'll never understand people defending someone like that.

[Itsjustafleshwound]

I don't quite know where I read this but the issue with drug taking during Olympic events, is that the athletes are usually clean during the contest and instead testing should be taking place throughout the time between events. The drugs give the competitors advantages over their rivals in terms of being able to train longer and harder and recover faster.

The point of all of this even if it is 'only' sport or 'only' a race the method was flawed, the participant a bully and a liar and shouldn't stand. He is unrepentant merely sorry that he couldn't wangle his way out of the corner

[DayToDayShit]

when can we watch it?

[difficultpickle]

Sportsweek (Radio 4 today) interviewed Ben Johnson. Interesting perspective. He was very like LA in saying that he wasn't cheating, just trying to have a level playing field and doing the same as everyone else. He said he was picked on because he won. He really doesn't get what he did wrong and how his sport was almost destroyed by his actions. Really mirrored LA.

[TheSmallClanger]

It's on Youtube.

[TomDudgeon]

I just don't understand how he got so powerful.

[bobthebuddha]

"it has not been part of the culture of British cycling to blood dope and take drugs"

I'm afraid that's not really true. Tommy Simpson was doped up (not the only British cyclist to be so either) and died on the Tour itself.

[Tanith]

I did find this amusing:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21115720