Child benefit - when it goes, do my pension credits vanish too...

[bb99]

Just curious.

I think that SAHPs who claim CB are entitled to National Insurance credits.

So, when the CB goes in 2013, will I lose any pension rights or credits too?

If so, had better revise the divorce to be a better off family plan and start being nicer to DH

[huddspur]

Sorry ISNT I'm being lazy regarding terms, if you wanted the period on maternity leave to count towards your NI contributions then you would have to be paying NI.
I think that if you have children then you are obliged to care for them and I don't accept the argument that just because you have a child then you are incapable of working and paying NI (I would bring the starting thresholds for paying NI down).

[huddspur]

No if they don't require more than the amount of care than a non-disabled child requires then they don't get NI credits.

[ISNT]

So that's a no to women receiving NI credits during a period of mat leave where they are not paying NI. Right?

[huddspur]

Yeah unless they choose to pay voluntary NI.

[SnoozyLucy]

So the only reason to get NI credits in your argument is if your child ends up needing more care than you could reasonably have anticipated? Using that premise would parents of unusually aggressive/violent children suddenly make themselves eligible for NI credits? Or those who unexpectedly have quads but not, say, twins? Or what about if you knew your baby was disabled very early in pregnancy and chose to carry on with the pregnancy (my SIL's situation, am not just picking that to be arsey) - you could have anticipated the work involved then, so do you exempt yourself from the NI credits?

[ISNT]

Are you going to provide free or subsidised childcare so that women can get back to work as soon as they have given birth?

[huddspur]

No your child would have to have a medical condition and the level of extra care would have to go beyond a set point.
Of course I would allow the parents of a disabled child to have them even if they knew beforehand that the child would have a disability and would need extra care. It is abhorrent to me that someone would terminate a pregnancy just because the child would need more care.

[huddspur]

ISNT I think childcare provison needs looking at very seriously

[ISNT]

You would allow the women to continue with their pregnancies?

And you would allow mothers who worked and paid NI to be eligible for a state pension?

Gosh you're magnanamous

[huddspur]

It would disgust me if someone had an abortion purely because that child had a disability.

I don't see whats wrong with making women (and men) have to make NI contributions in order to get the state pension.

[ISNT]

You're not though, you've repeatedly said that in the current situation you would remove NI credits from people (usually women) taking time out of work to raise children. So pretty much everyone would end up with a full state pension except for women who had taken time out to raise children.

You also want to remove NI credits from women when they are on mat leave.

It seems to me that you really have it in for women TBH.

[ISNT]

Everything you are saying amounts to women being punished financially for having children.

They are already punished financially for having children in the workplace, you want to extend that to the welfare state as well.

I find your politics utterly offensive TBH, but I think you have probably guessed that by now. I assume you find my desire to look after people in our society who are vulnerable, equally repulsive.

[SnoozyLucy]

There's nothing wrong with it per se but there are people that can't make NI contributions that should be protected against losses in their state pension. Choosing to care for a child past the time when you can pay NI contributions isn't necessarily a bad thing! Nor is being out of work if you really can't help it, or childcare around you being so expensive that it doesn't pay to work, especially at the 'pre-1' stage. Some people make a significant non-financial contribution to their community (or at least their families who will then grow up to make a financial contribution to the community) and if they need help to balance that up against their future then why not?

[huddspur]

I don't have it in for women I just don't think that you shouldn't get NI credits that count towards your NI contribution when you aren't paying anything towards that pension. Currently they are being given something for nothing.

[Sickandsicker]

I'm not sure people need to be so concerned about getting credits for a state pension these days, with the Pension Credit for those who don't have enough NI credits but are on a low income.

My neighbour had very few credits as she only moved to this country towards the end of her working life. She didn't qualify for a pension but got Pension Credit. It's a higher amount than the state pension too (although I think most people who get state pension also have a private one so they are better off overall). It's much higher than standard income support though.

[huddspur]

ISNT I don't find your views repulsive, I just don't agree with them

[byrel]

Interesting discussion between ISNT and Huddspur whilst I see where Huddspur is coming from I think she is being a bit draconian although I find the idea that someone in prison is getting NI credits outrageous.

[ISNT]

I don't think that people get it while in prison. The blurb says they can be credited if their convictions are subsequently quashed.

[byrel]

Thanks for clarifying ISNT

[huddspur]

I don't think I am being draconian you see byrel, I just don't see why people should get a full state pension that they haven't paid for. My mum has never worked in her life and my dad hasn't worked since I was 6 (I'm 24) and the idea that in this time both of them have been recieving NI credits that help contribute to their state pension shocks me.

[byrel]

I see why you would want to clamp down on people doing what your parents have done but I still think you are taking it too far the other way. Although I do agree that some women use having children as an excuse not to work.

[vixel]

I agree with Huddspur why should you be given NI contributions when you're not working and not paying NI.

[LilyBolero]

But if you haven't paid NI, what are you supposed to live on when you reach pensionable age? It's all very well saying 'don't give credits', but our society is one that doesn't (in theory) allow people to actually starve to death.

I tend to think that there are ways of contributing to society that are more general than just financial. For example, I am a SAHM, but I do some part time work (not enough to pay NI though), I look after our 4 kids, I also volunteer in school 2 or 3 afternoons per week - reduce everything to pounds and pence and you lose a wealth of contribution. If you look at the amount of time given to schools by SAHMs and calculated how much that would cost in £££ to hire in, it would be obvious that they were contributing in ways they are able. To then punish by removing pension is punitive and wrong.

[huddspur]

LilyBolero I would keep the basic state pension that is given out to those who have no other form of income in old age, I just wouldn't give them a full state pension.

[ISNT]

I don't understand why you insist that in the current situation you would remove NI credits from people who are taking time out to have children, and women on maternity leave, but keep it for everyone else.

You keep saying what you want in an idea world, but the situation we have is not that. In this world lots of people who are not working receive NI credit, but still you would remove them from women on maternity leave and from women (it usually is women) who are taking some time out to look after children.

I don't understand why you want to penalise mothers in this way. I can't see the logic - there isn't any. You seem to just particularly dislike women who have children.

All this not having sympathy for elderly women in poverty - why not? Some of them come from a time when they were not allowed to work after children - why punish them for this?