Another wanky Guardian article - the 'anguish' of finding a good school ....

[disgustedbythehypocricy]

This is the most BOAK-inducing thing i've read in a while.. it's so bad i honestly don't know where to start!

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/04/andrew-penman-schools-education

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

God, it's a bloody plug for his book! Running a mile is one thing, pretending to be christian is another. I have no problem looking for schools elsewhere, I do have a problem taking up a space that could be allocated to another child because a parent has sought fit to pretend to be a catholic or a christian so their child can go there, it's dishonest and just shows their children that they can also decieve and lie to get what they want. It's appauling.

[Rosebud05]

I'm with you Blu. I've only just found this thread - didn't bother looking at the weekend as I thought MN might think he Made His Points Well.

What a tosser. I always feel really sad about the sort of attitudes these types who think they're doing their best for their kids are actually imbuing them with.

Someone MUST write to the Guardian about the 61%-63% though, just so that we can all see it in print.

[DilysPrice]

He forfeited his right to complain about the system when he lied to get a place in the CofE school, and then whinged that the Catholics are a bit fussier (the best Catholic schools demand evidence of Catholic baptism before the age of 2 don't they?)
Also about the murders in Tooting comment and the multilingual => bad results comments, just plain ignorant on both counts. Having a lot of pupils with English as a second language is frequently associated with bad results for a variety of social reasons, but it doesn't cause it - not by a long chalk. DD's Vietnamese, Hungarian, Yoruba and Latvian speaking classmates with stable encouraging familes are doing very nicely at school thank you (and speaking excellent English at age 7, so it's hardly going to be a problem at secondary school).

[Blu]

GiddyPickle - I live in Lambeth, not a million miles from this man - and probably close to you! And for all the much-publicised knife crime the vast majority of young pelpe are not affected by it, Lambeth schools' results are improving faster than most in the whole country, and many Lambeth secondaries have results which are better than the national average. And yet the mc panic sends people fleeing.
Not all the schools are great, and some are more affected by the levels of anti-social behaviour than others. I wouldn't be happy to send DS to a few. But on the whole, what happens inside many schools would be in opposition to some widely held perceptions.

[Litchick]

I bloody hate it when folk say, ah well, a smart well motivated kid will do well anywhere.
It aint necessarily so.
I went to a shit comp and did really well academically. I went on to 'succeed'...however many many of my 'smart' peers didn't.

And what about the kids who aren't 'smart'?
Will they be okay?

[Litchick]

Blu - when you say you wouldn't be happy, do you mean you wouldn't do it? Or you would still send them there but be unhappy?

[Blu]

LitChick - If I really didn't think (having researched it by visiting, meeting teachers, parents of pupils, etc) that DS would do well at the school, or be happy in it, I wouldn't send him there. I would probably move. In line with my answer to UQD below where he asks of A Penman 'what should he have done?'

I'm not saying that every school is perfect, or even adequate. And certainly not that people should be forced to send their children to any school on principle.

Just that the reputation, of an area and a school, is often based on prejudice and misconception.

[Litchick]

That's fair enough.

TBH, I don't know the area or the schools in question, and I don't think the guy made his case very well cos he came across as a bleater...

But, the sad fact is that we none of us get an unfettered choice when it comes to state education.
If we don't like what we're given, what do we do?
I pay of my DCs education, but if I couldn't afford it, I suppose I can't say what I'd do.
Perhaps I'd move, or tutor for GS, or pick up my very lapsed catholocism.

[Blu]

I also wouldn't say 'any well-supported child will do well in any school' and for what it's worth, that goes for grammar and private school, too. There are many factors which make a child unhappy or unable to reach potential in a school, and parents need to look at those factors first hand, with honest and unprejudiced minds, and not spout second-hand panic!

[omnishambles]

This author, for example, is a twat. That tooting comment is just ridiculous.

That said I would hesitate to send my ds to one of those schools that regularly terrorise commuters at Wimbledon station by throwing fireworks down the stairs and needing constant police supervision.

[slight hijack] deaddei - sounds good - glad its all worked out - I remember those 11+ threads

[ZephirineDrouhin]

It is ridiculous. And now I come to think of it, the last notable murder round here was actually in the author's own Merton not Tooting (in Sainsbury's! In broad daylight!)

[CaptainInkheart]

That Tooting school is where Jake Myerson went, and we know what habits he had. The school has been done no favours by being exposed by the Guardian column written by Jake's mum.

We turned down a place there.

[MissM]

I honestly didn't get why he rejected the school on the basis of murders in Tooting. What do murders have to do with whether a school is any good or not?

My advice to Mr Penman would be, if he doesn't like people speaking English as a second language, to move way way out of London, perhaps to a little village in the home counties. I'm sure the schools are all outstanding there

[lalalonglegs]

I was puzzled by the Tooting comment as well - especially as one of the most over-subscribed schools in south London is there.

To be fair to the writer, I think he was trying to be provocative - I expect in the features meeting it was considered a refreshing change to the usual middle class hand-wringing. He did come across as a bit pleased with his own cleverness though - a bit undermined by the 61%/63% stat

[autodidact]

lolol @the mean streets of Tooting! This man is 100% tossweevil.

[muminlondon]

The Guardian had better raise its game because that article was unbelievably crap - inaccurate and badly researched.

The reason he didn't know that Rutlish was improving rapidly was because he never went to visit or talk to anyone who sent their children there.

In fact, in his article he only interviewed one person apart from his wife. And since he lied to his local vicar and congregation for 5 years he probably made that quote up too.

[Aitch]

ho ho ho, i am SO GLAD that this shit doesn't happen up here.

[MissM]

at 'tossweevil'.

[CaptainNancy]

roffle@ tossweevil- fantastic word!

The man lied to get his children into primary school... I don't really trust his judgement on selecting a secondary school.

[chandellina]

"Having a lot of pupils with English as a second language is frequently associated with bad results for a variety of social reasons, but it doesn't cause it - not by a long chalk."

cause or not, Ofsted research shows that these students on average perform well below those with English as a first language, at all stages of education.

a school with 71 languages spoken is going to be subject to that underperformance.

[Aitch]

i don't understand why he was only looking at the primary school though, when he was pretending to be an anglican. surely he knew that his kids would need a secondary school at some stage?

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

Ah but he left his options open as to whether he would be Catholic.

[EdgarAllInPink]

the catholic thing - hs problem seemed to be to me that they wouldn't be likely t get a place. fair enough.

to pay 40k in moving costs - the house must have been expensive - if 20k of that was stamp duty -

then that is 3% of a 660k house, with the 20k to cover estate agents fees, sols etc....

though maybe that's not expensive in London, it buys a pretty pile (or two) out in the sticks...