This sounds really wanky - but help me with my obsession re. getting a first (think I am a tw*t)

[hmc]

I already have a couple of degrees (don't know why I feel I have to say that, I think I am an intellectual snob and don't want anyone to think this is my first degree because I couldn't cut it at school ...why am I like this???)

Anyways - am currently doing OU History degree (started in Feb) - to keep my mind ticking over and something for me (as a SAHM - because...so easily... you can loose your sense of self)

Have done level 1 module and am awaiting result ...but it is only level 2 and level 3 courses which count toward degree classification. For some reason am obsessed with getting a first (got 2:1 in my first degree). All good so far - first three assignments for my first level 2 course have achieved the required 85%+...but this doesn't come easily, I literally sweat blood to get these marks

So, everybody else on the course forum just wants a pass and I am having kittens over every assignment and forthcoming exam desperate to maintain 85% plus. Next assignment due on 14 August but kids break up from school next Wednesday....am mega stressed as I can see my mark for next assignment suffering (no time - pushy ankle biters). Being mean and intolerant to children atm as I want to study

Help me get some perspective. I keep saying to myself - you are doing this for 'fun' and yet you are making a meal of it...but am still obsessing

Am causing my own pressure. How do I persuade myself that it doesn't matter if I don't get a first?

Sorry a bit pissed and sound like a prat - but genuinely, this issue (as trivial as it may sound) is causing me grief - am not looking forward to school summer holidays because of it

[hatwoman]

molesworth - for me it was a pretty basic but almost damascus road-like realisation involving maths and exam technique. I had to do 4 questions in each exam. all worth 25 per cent. I realised that if I did 3 of them brilliantly and then a 4th "make-do" pass-level answer (in the last 20 minutes of the exam) I wouldn't get a distinction. That approach - which was what I did as an undergrad - was essentially not even attempting, say, 12.5 per cent of the exam (half of one question). and to do that is madness. (remember all your school teachers saying always answer every question...if you had 100 questions you'd never dream of missing 12 of them out completely...)

so I applied this realisation to my study timetable - I worked out how many topics I needed to study, worked out how many days I had per topic, and stuck to it. no matter how inadequate I felt my 2 days' of study on subject x were, I knew I had to move on to topic y to give myself any chance at all of a distinction.

and I applied the same approach on exam day. I did a lot of practice exam questions - training myself to do them in 40 minutese. so that I could do 4 on the day, rather than my old method of doing 3 and a half.

[bcsnowpea]

You need a big sign posted above your workspace that says: "You are doing this for fun, but it's okay to want it!"
Feel free to add "P.S. You look really good in those pants"
It might make you smile for a few weeks and work as a reminder to forgive your perfectionism (and there's no harm in also enjoying your pants).

[brimfull]

hmc-stop being a nob

[kathyis6incheshigh]

I am a bit worried about you literally sweating blood. Have you seen a doctor?

Seriously, I can understand where you are coming from and don't think you are being a knob. My mum got a 2.1 in her first degree and was determined to get a distinction in her OU degree - she did, but it was after her dcs were grown up so somewhat easier than what you are doing.

Is there a practical reason why you want a first? Do you want to do a PhD? Because if so, a first would make a difference to funding but frankly as long as you have a good selection of high marks to point to, you can probably get a place even without a distinction/first overall.

[Lizzylou]

I was such a waster during my degree, I did the bare minimum (loved partying too much) and now I think that if I studied again I would move heaven and earth to get a 1st.
DH went to Uni a little later (early 20's)and he got a 1st, it is a bone of contention in our house
Do you have anyone you could use for childcare during the holidays, a few afternoons a week say?

[madwomanintheattic]

eek. i am of course, hmc and molesworth by any other name (with tfm traits), and sliding down the slippery slope of not handing anything in as it isn't quite right...

i went to uni from school, got pg and dropped out (didn't have baby but went onto diff things), and returned later (much later lol) to a different course and got a first... i had kind of assumed that would get it out of my system (cod-psychology about not being good enough etc etc) but here i am having dropped one course and struggling like crazy to get myself together enough to do it justice... whilst planning my phd, natch.

agree hugely with the whole perfectionism/ depression thing. i literally work myself in circles or am utterly transfixed and can do nothing because i know i haven't got enough time to do it properly, and so i don't do it and i feel worse.

so, like i tell myself - in the grand scheme of things this matters not a jot to anyone except ourselves, so we have to work out a way to Let It Go, do the work, but don't overdo the work, etc etc. apparently life should be a balance lol.

my very wise supervisor says 'you can only do what you can do'. but with three kids i want to do so much more than i can fit in lol.

i have absolutely no answers, but i share your pain about the excrutiating and utterly pointless neediness.

[Niecie]

All our different approaches are interesting.

I am also a perfectionist but for me it means that if I can't do it perfectly I don't bother! In terms of the OU (have done the post grad conversion in psych and now doing the MSc) it means that I leave everything until the last minute and then get it done in a rush - probably a bit like thefallenmadonna. I don't do my best but I always end up with an 'excuse' for not getting top marks. Silly really - self-sabotaging. However, if I put the effort in and still don't get a distinction/first what does that say?!

I disagree that striving to do your best the same as perfectionism. The first will make you content with what you achieve, the second will possibly make you unhappy and depressed because it is impossible to achieve.

In practical terms I don't think that perfectionism is the problem to tackle here. The problem is the fact that you are letting it interfer with the rest of your life. If you aren't looking forward to doing anything else (i.e. school holidays) then it is unhealthy.

I would get round it by setting aside dedicated study times. Stick to that as rigidly as possible, call in some help, pack the children off to holiday club for a day or two and work hard in those times. The rest of the time, forget about it. Then put as much effort into being the 'perfect' mother, if you want to put it into the same terms as your course, and concentrate on your children and your time together (and hopefully having fun). Put the studying in its own compartment and leave it behind at your desk.

Don't you get a few weeks off for the summer anyway? I thought I did for undergrad courses but it was a while ago that I did them.

Just as a matter of interest what were your other degrees in? Is history the most 'academic' subject you have studied? If so I wonder if this is why it has become so important to do well.

[Bumperslucious]

HMC you sound very much like me. I would have been dissatisfied with anything other than a first and I still think I don't deserve the first that I got because I didn't think I worked hard enough.

I am now suffering the same problem as you, not in education but basically everywhere else, at home, at work. I'm doing a crap job at work and a crap job at home and I hate myself for it.

Sorry, that's not much help, as I don't know how to snap out of it. It's all very well people saying, as they have said to me, stop being so hard on yourself, give yourself a break, but if you don't have that sort of personality it's hard.

To help me at the moment I am reading Buddhism for Mothers which is to do with mindfulness, which from my limited understanding so far is about enjoying and valuing the moment. I don't think there is a book called Buddhism for Perfectionists Doing Another Degree, but you might want to have a look at books on Mindfulness or Buddhism.

And stop saying you are being a twat, it's all part of it isn't it, doing yourself down, so stop it now.

[Molesworth]

Niecie, I can identify with the self-sabotage thing you describe. I work really hard with the reading and thinking, then sabotage myself with the writing by leaving it too late to give myself time to produce something really good. That way, I've got a ready excuse if I don't get a pass 1. But if I do get a pass 1, I feel as if I don't really deserve it and doubt the university's standards. I think I'm afraid to try my absolute best in case I fall short. Writing this down makes me see that none of this is rational. Because the rational part of me knows that I'm doing this to learn, that I am learning, and that the grades are unimportant (although I do want to go on to postgraduate study, so getting a first would help with that).

[ihavenosecrets]

I'm sure you will do well, you have a couple of degrees under your belt and you obviously know how to apply yourself.

Interesting that nobody has picked you up on your mistake in your first post. Make sure you do a grammar check before you post your next assignment.

[ihavenosecrets]

I hate it too sleepycat I have posted several posts about how I find it patronising. I pointed it out because I suspect that the OP being a perfectionist would want to know if a she had made a mistake. The was genuine I wasn't being a patronising smuggo like some.

which is directed at you SC not the op. and another one for good measure.

[Molesworth]

Also think niecie gives sound advice about getting some help with childcare so you have time for study during the summer hols. Could you free up a couple of days a week for study, or would that be too difficult? These February-start OU courses are a bloody pain because there is no respite over the summer.

[ihavenosecrets]

I only pointed it out because it was the classic schoolgirl error of "loose" instead of "lose", the OP is obviously far more intelligent than me so I am sure it was a genuine error.

hmc, I am about to start a history degree with the OU so I might need your expertise soon. I shall of course have a name change before I ask for any help.

SC,

I sooo need a holiday.

[Fennel]

Get some childcare and do the degree properly and then take time off with the children properly after.

Then, whether you get a first or not, at least you didn't hamper yourself by trying to do it and look after chidren too.

It's not unreasonable to aim for a first, lots of mature students get firsts, because they are more motivated, not just enjoying the student social life.

[ihavenosecrets]

Thanks.

[hockeypuck]

I don't think you are a tw*t at all. I think being a mother is an incredibly thankless task and has little immediate reward and it encourages the need for external approval. Getting a first is external approval of something you are doing and I understand that need completely.

I am doing an MSc at the moment. I started it when DS was 1 and DD 5 and I thought, with those pressures (DS at home with me full time) I would be luck to pass. I did my best for the first module at got 2% off a distinction so I thought, darned if I'm going to settle for a pass with grades like that, I'll push myself for a distinction (MSc level have just a pass and a distinction, no middle ground and I knew I was better academically than people who were just scraping passes). Since then I have had a good distinction in every module, despite having power of atorney over my elderly aunt, a father who was given 2 weeks to live 10 months ago, 2 small children, one of whom is home with me full time and also 2 part-time jobs in the evenings and weekends.

For me, it has paid off. I realised that to do what I want to do I need a PhD and viewed the two years of my MSc as a 2 year job interview, I did my best with everything, talked with and got to know the lecturers etc, and when it came to putting in my application for ESRC funding for the PhD, the staff were all very keen to help me improve it, because they knew me as a hard worker. I got the funding and I start the PhD as soon as this MSc is finished (I have one week off for a holiday in the sun!).

Wafle, waffle, waffle, but what I am trying to say is. Don't beat yourslf up over your determination to do well, it is understandable and that kind of determination will help you if you decide to develop a career after studying. However, don't beat yourself up over every grade and every assignment. Do what you can.

Time-wise. Study every evening and just take it easy with the kids during the day. Delegate what you can to your partner/friends etc. Let the housework go a bit but make sure you've done any evening jobs before the kids go to bed so you can come straight down and study. You'll find you actually get a lot more done with much less time because you'll be focussed.

I am getting to the end of my MSc now, all modules are done, I just need to finish my dissertation now by mid September. Now that I have the PhD funding, people wonder why I just don't think ah wel;l, it's just an MSc and ease off the study for the disertation and get an easy pass overall. I can't do that. I have worked so much and like you say, sweated blood for so long that I'm not giving up now - I will get a distinction to make all that worthwhile. I got a 2:1 in my first degree 12 years ago and always regret that I didn't get just 2% more and a first overall. This time I'll get it.

With regards to your kids, it is actually a very good role model for them to see their mother working for something and dedicated to a cause.

Good luck with it all and remember it is manageable, just be determined and organised and you'll do it.

[CowWatcher]

Hi OP, I am doing an OU English degree at the moment and am similarly obsessed. I am currently awaiting exam results & will embark on a level 2 & a level 3 course in October. I don't think there is anything wrong with your obsession! My current obsession is how I will manage to maintain my TMA scores whilst doing two courses at once! Best of luck,

[mrsmortenharket]

i thoguth that the 10points for level one course counted towards degree? not just the points for level 2 and 3

[Bumperslucious]

Can I just ask how are you all affording to do OU courses? I would love to do one (really regret my first degree, yet I still went on and did an MSc in it but it is really expensive! And you can't seem to get any help if you already have a degree.

The answer is probably that you all have more money than me but I was just wondering if there was a secret to it.

[mrsmortenharket]

nope, no secret. even if you are earning some money still apply to the ou as they may still be able to help - even if there are joint incomes.

[Molesworth]

MrsMH - the points (for level 1 courses) do count, but the grades don't.

Bumpers - I think help is still available for second degrees but the govt are seeking to withdraw subsidies on them. 60 point undergrad courses are just over £600 each and help is available on a sliding scale. The OU also do a low interest loan arrangement (OUSBA) so you can pay in instalments.