Switching courses at Cambridge

[shockthemonkey]

Sorry, but I don't feel I can ask this question at the college where my student has an offer!

I remember from my undergrad days that it was fairly straightforward to change courses at Cambridge. A student at my college switched from Econ to Law, for instance. You'd hear of quite a few others in different colleges... I always assumed that you couldn't switch from say MML to NatSci, but recently heard of just such a switch - the daughter of a friend.

I accept my experience is limited, but I have never heard of a request to switch being denied, though I know requests won't be granted if you perform badly in your first year.

One of my charges has an offer for course A, but wants to feel quite sure she can switch to course B at the end of the first year if she isn't loving A. Both courses are within the humanities family and have similar entrance requirements. She has now heard on the grapevine that some colleges are more open to switching than others... she thinks her college might be one of the unreceptive ones.

Yet from my memory it was never really college-specific, it was more a question of making your case and getting approval from your current DoS and your prospective DoS.

So has anyone heard similar, that some Cambridge colleges are less open to switching? It would be useful for my charge to know, as she has a slew of amazing offers in the UK but is most tempted by Cambridge, on the proviso that she can make that change after her Part Is if she wishes.

It may be worth mentioning that her other offers are perfect-fit courses at LSE, UCL, Sciences Po and Edinburgh.

[Setyoufree]

My knowledge is 20 years out of date now, but I know of 3 people that wanted to switch at the end of 1st year. They were told they could, subject to getting a 2:1 in the original subject. They all got the 2:1 and didn't switch in the end.

[poetryandwine]

Former Russell Group admissions tutor here.

I understand your hesitation and I agree that ideally the question would not be asked at this stage. Your charge could join the online forum The Student Room and ask some recent and current College members there for their views on the likelihood that a change request would be granted. TSR is usually highly reliable.

But ultimately admissions tutors understand that a good fit is mutual, and want to address the concerns of those who are admitted in the first round. I feel sure that someone with such a spectacular set of offers can figure out how to construct a query (email to the Head Admissions Tutor is best, but it can be sent to anyone on the admissions team and they will route it properly) that will put her concern in the best light and encourage a positive response.

Please note that email from the applicant herself is much the preferred form of communication. Best wishes

[Wornoutlady]

@shockthemonkey My info is old on this one, but I had a friend at Kings and he was able to change his course twice. He started with Russian and Arabic, changed to Persian and Arabic and then swapped again to Persian and Russian. It took him 5 years, mind. He had to start again each time, but it wasn't a struggle to get the changes agreed, given the courses he was swapping between.

[Penguinsa]

My experience is also old but know of 3 requested course changes, one was someone who got a third in Economics who was encouraged to change and then changed, another changed from Econ to Law with a 2:1 but decided she wanted to be a commercial lawyer and a third who was refused on grounds not in best interests. It appeared to be case by case.

I would also try the Student Room for current students with the exact courses and see if anyone has knowledge there. I would say though that I wouldn't assume its guaranteed and would work on the basis of the offer in hand.

[Splitsplats]

I recently heard of an undergraduate at Cambridge who has been allowed to switch from Classics to Ancient History. She is in the second year and apparently had to put a lot of work into getting the course switched, but this has just been approved.

[shockthemonkey]

Thank you all so much. I especially appreciate your advice @poetryandwine , what with your professional experience… and thanks also to @Setyoufree , @Wornoutlady , @Splitsplats and @Penguinsa .

I will redirect her to TSR and caution her once again. It feels such a huge gamble, even when there seem to be no scare stories out there of good students being refused a switch.

[shockthemonkey]

Sorry, no scare stories with the exception of @Penguinsa ’s third example…

[PettsWoodParadise]

DD is in Y1 at Cambridge, one of her fellow students asked to switch from English to Law and will be going into Y1 of law in October.

[foxglovetree]

I've only taught at Oxford, never at Cambridge, and the two are different in many ways, so do take the below with a pinch of salt, but the nature of tutorial teaching also creates similarities, so for what it's worth...

Certainly at Oxford there wouldn't ever be a guarantee that you could switch course after a year. Any request to switch would be considered by the tutors for the new subject, who would usually read some written work and reinterview the student and establish whether they would have admitted that student for that course had they applied for it in the first place. They would probably ask some probing questions about why the student hadn't applied for that subject in the first place and what had made them change their mind (given that anyone who's received an offer has made a convincing case that they are really passionate about the subject they originally applied for). It would also depend on whether the tutors felt the student could realistically catch up on the preliminary material for the new subject. It would usually also be subject to getting a decent mark in the first set of exams. Bear in mind that the tutorial system makes switching hard to acommodate in a way that isn't true of other universities.

Cambridge may handle things differently and perhaps are more flexible - but I'd be surprised if they could offer certainty that a switch would be allowed. So I'd advise her to take up the offer on the basis that she might not be able to switch (and if that puts her off, maybe she would be better off picking one of her other options).

[TimeandMotion]

My experience is waaay out of date (from the 1990s!) but back in those days Cambridge actually had a course specifically designed for people who had switched from another subject to law. I did it after my 2nd year. It wasn’t advertised as such, but there was a specific “changeover” curriculum. So experiences of changes to law may not be representative of experiences of changes to other subjects.

(I recall it was just a quick chat with my tutor and DoS. In retrospect I was arrogant and rude about my original course, I think I was very lucky they let me change!)

[Ineffable23]

I had a friend who switched Maths to Geography and another Law to NatSci (10 years or so ago now).
Two people in my parents generation also switched course.

Some are easier than others e.g. you can take a psych module in 2nd year philosophy that puts you in a perfect position to take 3rd year psych.

The Law to NatSci friend was made to repeat year one. Maths to Geography started straight in year two.

[poetryandwine]

@foxglovetree ‘S post is very interesting, OP. I think only actual experience of Cambridge trumps it.

[lanthanum]

It's the college that makes the decision (presumably except where there's a limit on the places available across the university - eg medicine), and I suspect it's almost always on a case-by-case basis. Certainly my college agreed a change despite it contradicting what they would "normally" allow, according to a notice they'd put up. They'd presumably need to know that you'd cope on the new course, and that you're not going to change your mind again the next year.

I don't think your student needs to worry about asking the question - they can't take her offer away. A friend of mine wanted to apply for maths and then switch to physics in the second year (maths with physics didn't exist then). She asked at a college maths open day whether that would go against her (it would be obvious from her application, since she was applying for physics elsewhere). They said not at all, they'd just hope to convince her she preferred maths!

[ErrolTheDragon]

This came up a bit when I was chatting this weekend to my dd and her bf (graduated ~3 years ago so fairly recent) .
Seems there's a fair bit of course switching in some of the stem subjects IF you've got the appropriate requirements obviously - but typically either very early in yr 1 or else starting fresh the next year. One friend changed to NatSci from CompSci after the first week or two. Another changed (restarted ) from maths to MML - she had a language A level.

Anyway... I think the idea of course switching is common enough that the student should be able to contact admissions and ask. Or by now esp of she's been to or is about to go to an offer holders event may have contact with students there.

[catPA]

Nothing is guaranteed OP - I wouldn't say it's common for students to change course. However, I have heard (via DS) of someone switching from Geography to HSPS, and from Philosophy to English. Those are both in the last two or three years.

What are the subjects she is thinking about changing between?

[SOWK]

I work at Cambridge. Tripos changes are not guaranteed; it’s at the discretion of individual colleges. I know some colleges require the student to meet the entry requirements for the new course, so a student wanting to switch to maths would need to pass a STEP equivalent test.

[shockthemonkey]

@catPA , it would be AMES to HSPS…

[Moonlaserbearwolf]

One of my charges has an offer for course A, but wants to feel quite sure she can switch to course B at the end of the first year if she isn't loving A.

It’s a hypothetical question at this stage. Absolutely fine for your student to ask whether it’s possible to change courses after a year. Though I expect the answer will be vague - decisions like this are taken on a case by case basis if a student wants to change. I can’t see anyone will give this student an absolute guarantee before they have even started their course!

I know a geographer who switched to chemistry after a year (he had geography and 2 science alevels), but he had to change college and start again in first year. This is probably quite rare, but not all colleges offer all subjects. Does the college in question offer both of these humanities subjects?

[SOWK]

HSPS is a far more popular subject than AMES. It might be that the college just don’t have a space to transfer.

[Penguinsa]

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/human-social-and-political-sciences Under course outline it says about changing course and says in rare cases you can.

[Ceramiq]

@poetryandwine

Former Russell Group admissions tutor here.

I understand your hesitation and I agree that ideally the question would not be asked at this stage. Your charge could join the online forum The Student Room and ask some recent and current College members there for their views on the likelihood that a change request would be granted. TSR is usually highly reliable.

But ultimately admissions tutors understand that a good fit is mutual, and want to address the concerns of those who are admitted in the first round. I feel sure that someone with such a spectacular set of offers can figure out how to construct a query (email to the Head Admissions Tutor is best, but it can be sent to anyone on the admissions team and they will route it properly) that will put her concern in the best light and encourage a positive response.

Please note that email from the applicant herself is much the preferred form of communication. Best wishes

I wish I could agree with you but sadly some universities are very slow to respond to applicants and much quicker off the mark to respond to parents.

[ErrolTheDragon]

I wish I could agree with you but sadly some universities are very slow to respond to applicants and much quicker off the mark to respond to parents.

I honestly doubt that's the norm.
And in this case, the applicant is already an offer holder from a college who has been interviewed and selected and the OP isn't a parent.

[poetryandwine]

I am with @ErrolTheDragon on this one. I struggle to see why one class of correspondent would get a quicker response than another; I think this may sometimes be a subjective perception. I’ve slogged through those long lists of queries myself. You develop your own rhythms and methods. If anything you prioritise email from names you recognise as having admitted.

Furthermore when there is a subjective element to the query (will I be able to change degree programmes?) showing the applicant as mature and thoughtful is important. That can only be done if she herself writes.

[poetryandwine]

‘having admitted ‘ should say ‘having made an offer’

[foxglovetree]

I'd agree with @poetryandwine here.

We much prefer to deal with applicants/students direct - for the simple reason that if someone else is writing on their behalf, it immediately raises the question of how we can know this query is really coming from the applicant and how can we be sure we have their permission to discuss their situation. (It's not impossible, for example, that a parent might write, against the student's wishes or without their knowledge, to ask if their child could change to a degree that they consider a better choice).
In any case, if a student wants to change degree, they would need to explain their motivations - and that's hard to assess if it's someone else asking for them.