Applying for medicine - how important is d of e, really?

[Pumpkintopf]

Hoping for some advice from those of you whose DC's have gone off to be med students or anyone with experience of admissions-

I understand that top grade a levels are a prerequisite of course, plus UKCAT/BMAT scores, performance at interview and relevant work experience.

My question is, does anyone take the Duke of Edinburgh award into account, or perhaps more to the point would it be a disadvantage not to have achieved at least silver, working towards gold? Ds's school does not currently offer it so wondering how much I should encourage them to do so.

Sorry I know it sounds ridiculous but I know how competitive med school applications are and don't want him to miss out for the want of something that we could potentially fix.

Thanks very much.

[missminimum]

I think the main thing, as well as the UKAT result, is a passion for the job, a realistic view of the demands of the course and the career. Shadowing doctors is good but making best use of this chance by asking questions of doctors and patients is very important. They need to demonstrate they have a realistic view of the life of a doctor. Interests outside of academic study are also valued, something that shows their character and they are interesting and enthusiastic. My son was young in his year and not 18 until he sat his A levels. He struggled to get health related work experience due to his age, but did get a week shadowing drs through a scheme at our local hospital. I work in the NHS but he refused any input from me, he said it was important that he could show he had no help with his application, this included us having no involvement with his PS. He had interesting hobbies, enjoyed outdoor pursuits, showed he could handle responsibilty through being a prefect and helping at Cubs. He was obsessed with everything medical related and could demonstrate his knowledge and understanding of the role. In order to withstand the pressure of the course and the job, they have to be some what obsessed and very enthusiatic, to meet the demands of what is to come. He did not do Dof E.

[mumsneedwine]

Mine liked watching Greys Anatomy 😁. She's still waiting for another Medic to whisk her into a cupboard for a quick snog though.

[Pumpkintopf]

Mumsneedwine

[MariaNovella]

HarryTheSteppenwolf - while I find your sentiments concerning the desirable character traits for future medics laudable, I am reminded of a young (late 20s) A&E doctor I met last summer at a family birthday party. She had graduated from Oxford and was living in London, fulfilling her long held dream to look after the vulnerable as a doctor and also by volunteering in a bakery that supported the rehabilitation of highly disadvantaged young people into economic life and society. She was eloquent, personable, selfless and exceptionally intelligent. She hated medicine as a career with a vengeance, however, and was desperate to get out. She felt that she had been misled and that good doctors needed very different character traits to her own: to be tough, to be ambitious, to not care too much about anything but the short term job of getting people back on their feet and out of the hospital door as quickly and cheaply as possible. She believed her character traits would be better suited to addressing structural problems in society.

[ProfessorLayton1]

I agree about the box ticking exercise. In most cases parents make sure that their children have sorted all the WE , care home experience etc., even before the children reach AS levels..
Compare that with my daughter who decided to do medicine fairly late in the process and have not had much experience when compared with the other children - of course the medical admission process is going to favour someone who had 2 year WE compared with my Dd who did not as It has been pointed out!
She had to go through all the possible career options and had to come to the conclusion of medicine as a career for her in the end . It was quite an agonising and painful process especially if you have a child who is good at lot of things!
She has made an informed choice and knows what to expect so hopefully would not be disappointed as a result of this!

[ColdFingered]

Re the DofE, I don't know much about it, and this thread looks at it solely at its use in getting into university. However, looked at the other way round, if someone is doing a lot of volunteering etc anyway, they can use this to get their DofE with little extra effort on top of what they are doing anyway.

DD is doing gold DofE through her (state) school. (I'm not sure whether she mentioned it at all on her PS.) But the only extra things she had to do has been camping, which she really enjoyed and was the main reason she did it, and a compulsory residential, which she is doing as her post-A-levels holiday (and is the main expense).

So while it might not get you the university place, it might be a fun thing to do.

[MarchingFrogs]

So while it might not get you the university place, it might be a fun thing to do.

DD is treating her upcoming World Challenge trip - almost entirely self-funded through her part time job - in a similar light. Three weeks or so with some friends, somewhere unfamiliar and interesting. No expectation that the good folk of Madagascar will be grateful for whatever project this particular bunch of Essex teenagers will be put to work on, but hoping that they will at least not mind them being there and doing it.

[alreadytaken]

The process does not favour those with 2 years WE and certainly not those who have box ticked. It favours those who can show they have some understanding of what they are getting into and can demonstrate the qualities they are going to need later. If you are not sufficiently determined and proactive to sort out work experience you probably are not going to find enough teaching when you are out on the wards and teaching is not being handed to you on a plate. You need to care about your patients but you also need to be able to detach yourself from them at times.

There are other things rarely talked about, like the ability to cope with the various bodily fluids you will encounter, the elderly and the mentally ill. Doing something that involves getting your hands dirty is probably a plus point. If you dont like people or dislike seeing them with their clothes off you'll have to choose from a limited number of specialties.

The young Oxford doctor desperate to get out could still switch specialty as it sounds like a&e is not for them. There are many specialties. There are also many other opportunities for Oxford graduates

[goodbyestranger]

Maria the Oxford student will obviously have considered politics.

[mumsneedwine]

Maybe those years of shovelling horse poo helped DDs application more than I thought 😂

[mimtza]

I suppose what I am wondering about in the whole WE discussion is to what extent it would be considered necessary in our case.
DS2 (who is Year 11 thinking of medicine), is 18 months younger that DS1, who due to a random genetic mutation has complex special needs, cannot walk or talk and has regular epileptic fits. DS2 has spent many, many hours as a young child in hospitals while his brother has been treated, and seen an almost constant stream of medical professional come through our door.
While I have tried to shield both of my younger DC from the heavy lifting that goes into caring for an extremely disabled, complex needs, life limited child, there is only so much one can do, and especially with the oldest of them (DS2), sometimes you just need that second pair of hands, especially now that DS1 needs two person rolling etc. We therefore did register both of my two younger DC, including DS2, as young carers (which is really handy, because, eg the disabled transport that takes DS1 to school were only prepared to let DS2 be the one to take him off the bus when we said he was a young carer).

So if what the medical schools are really interested in, ie hands on experience with care and medicine, well DS2 doesn't need to go anywhere else, it is all at home, and he has been shadowing medical professionals all his life. But if they are looking for prestigious things to put on a CV, well - he didn't exactly do anything except be born after his brother to earn the current set up.

That said, he spoke to a paediatric A&E consultant that in her spare time volunteers at one of the charities that support life limited children and their families, including DS1, and she was willing for DS2 to shadow her - not nepotism exactly, but you could argue a leg up arranged (unwittingly) by DS1 being who he is.
Of course he can go on at length in any interview about exactly the precise diagnosis of DS1 and his needs (and has been able to since he was in primary school, because siblings need some answers when the other kids, not to mention adults, ask questions).
Not sure, however, if all that would be good or bad for his personal statement (sigh, and I have worked so hard to have DS1 not dominate his life).