Applying for medicine - how important is d of e, really?

[Pumpkintopf]

Hoping for some advice from those of you whose DC's have gone off to be med students or anyone with experience of admissions-

I understand that top grade a levels are a prerequisite of course, plus UKCAT/BMAT scores, performance at interview and relevant work experience.

My question is, does anyone take the Duke of Edinburgh award into account, or perhaps more to the point would it be a disadvantage not to have achieved at least silver, working towards gold? Ds's school does not currently offer it so wondering how much I should encourage them to do so.

Sorry I know it sounds ridiculous but I know how competitive med school applications are and don't want him to miss out for the want of something that we could potentially fix.

Thanks very much.

[YeOldeTrout]

... couldn't find anything on Lancaster Uni or KCL websites about PS but Cambridge do mention it as part of assessment criteria (buried).

[Rosieposy4]

That’s a massive shift for Bristol in a short time span, i have a dc doing medicine there and they used to place massive emphasis on the ps, almost certainly that was what got him an interview and place.

[YeOldeTrout]

BSMS says clearly that invite to interview depends very much on PS.

Leicester says PS may be read.

Looks like PS is important part of applic to HullYMS.

[mumsneedwine]

Yes it's very unreliable !!! It's so out of date. Please please do up to date research as getting those interviews is what you need, and this means you need to know how each Uni select. Notts said at open day they are changing next year so no insider knowledge needed (my DD was helping). I have no interest in any of this except I know how tough the process is and we got told lots of stuff that was out of date. Sheffield even give you the interview questions before you go.

[TheCuddlyOctopus]

We prep loads of students for medicine personal statements and interviews at work.

It's not important at all. The most important thing is that they show they have the aptitude and interest to be a great medical student. Don't waste valuable space on the form on grade 7 trumpet.

It's much better for them to identify an interesting example from their work experience, research it and talk about that on the form (e.g. saw x procedure, found y about it interesting, read article about it in journal, learned z, has and implications for practice). Extra curricula can be mentioned but really very briefly.

[BertrandRussell]

If they take things like DofE into consideration I hope someone sued them for discrimination. The only activities mentioned on a personal statement that should be relevant are those which are directly relevant to the subject being applied for.

[mumsneedwine]

BMAT Unis seem to still read the PS more than UKCAT ones. Bristol's was a massive shift and caught lots of kids out this year - the cut of was something like 675 so pretty high

[Haffdonga]

Sheffield even give you the interview questions before you go

General topic areas that may be questioned about, but not the specific questions, surely!

[mumsneedwine]

But back to the OP. The use of D of E for Medicine is it gives you 'stories' to use as evidence of certain attributes that medicine requires. Patience, tenacity, resilience and problem solving. So it has a use and isn't middle class at all - scouts charge £10 to do it here.

[mumsneedwine]

No Haffdonga. The actual question 😁. The lovely Julian (their Admissions person) is so helpful and makes the process so transparent.

[mumsneedwine]

Questions (all of them this year - last year was just 2)

[YeOldeTrout]

Dundee has expectations about PS.

Cardiff uses the PS to assess applicants.

QUBelfast mentions PS.

Couldn't find any mention of PS for Edinburgh.

It just seems to me like MoST the places I'm looking up, they do use the PS somewhere in the admissions process.

[bengalcat]

At the end of the day who knows who ‘ reads the PS ‘ - either way applicants makes it about you and as good as can - the interviewers are likely to read it

[mumsneedwine]

So that's fine. I said most not all. Some read the PS but it's not used for selection, which is the important bit. One admissions tutor said they read it just to make sure prospective applicants don't sound like a psychopath 😁. And rules change every year so only go by the info for the year you are applying. The GMC have recommended not to use PS so I expect more Unis will follow Bristol. Oh and Cardiff select by using GCSE score - if you've not got 7 A*s then it's unlikely you'll get an interview (but they don't use UKCAT. For now. I'm off to call my baby medic before she heads off clubbing.

[mumsneedwine]

Totally agree bengalcat. Make it the best you can as some do read it, and some don't. But I can guarantee you that UKCAT/BMAT will count for so much more (unless you're Cardiff(.

[BertrandRussell]

“So it has a use and isn't middle class at all - scouts charge £10 to do it here.”

[bengalcat]

Yes grades predicted and otherwise get you an interview / PS provides some talking points for interviews as essentially everyone’s the same gradeswise

[mumsneedwine]

DD at Pres so was v quick conversation - she's now off to Spoons (which I used to think was a posh bar and then discovered is short for Wetherspoons 😂) ! D of E can be useful for anecdotes. But not just to bung on PS. Lots of ways of showing all those soft skills. And lots of Unis like part time jobs as they show these skills really well.
Good luck to anyone applying and do your own research about selection criteria, not entry. Everyone probably has the entry stuff which is why they have to rank by something.

[catlovingdoctor]

Got multiple interviews at different medical and dental schools without having done it 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Heyha]

@pumpkintopf it's been a long while since I taught A level students going into medicine so can't comment on that but just wanted to say that Leicester University used to, and still do as far as I know, run an excellent degree in Medical Genetics.

[Pumpkintopf]

@Heyha thank you will have a look

Thank you all for the very helpful responses and tips.

[HostessTrolley]

BSMS said at their open afternoon that for home students they dont read the ps and select for interview on BMAT scores. It was their admissions tutor I believe who gave the talk that we were at.

[HarryTheSteppenwolf]

Very few English medical schools use UCAS personal statements in selection, other than as a prompt for interview questions. Fewer still read school/college references. Some use post-application forms to assess certain things that might have been included in the PS (Keele, Manchester, Sunderland, UCLan), but in Manchester's case it's only really important for applicants with borderline scores in UKCAT (which is now called UCAT, by the way). I know a lot of medicine admissions tutors, and none of them are impressed by mention of DofE. For me, it isn't quite such a red flag as flying thousands of miles to do voluntary work somewhere exotic when your own town is full of homeless people and families dependent on food banks, but it is still a bit of an irritating distraction.

[MariaNovella]

I was told by an admissions tutor that in their opinion D of E on the personal statement simply flags up middle class privilege and gains no credit at all.

Increasingly it is necessary for university applicants to tread a fine line between using their numerous extra and super curricular activities to demonstrate their aptitude for their chosen course of student and not falling into the trap of looking as if their lives have been very privileged.

[Pumpkintopf]

That's a very interesting point, and would support the idea that a part time job would demonstrate useful skills potentially without crossing over that line to suggest privilege.