Turn down a Cambridge offer

[Wobbliebits]

My daughter and I were talking about the whole uni student experience.
Having spent a week at a Cambridge summer school and also visited her friend at a different uni for a week she feels that if someone went to oxbridge they would miss out on the nightlife, clubbing, staying up all night, eating beans on toast kinda thing.

I have no experience of being at a uni... are we stereo typing and being very judgemental to think this? And would someone be crazy to turn down an offer to study medicine at oxbridge due to these views?

Thank you for your thoughts 🙂

[hellsbells99]

I think if when is applying for medicine then she may not get many offers anyway. At the point of getting any offers she can then look further at the course and decide which is the best fit for her.
Other universities may suit her more. For medicine it doesn't matter where she chooses. But a good point made above, it that the course is longer at Oxbridge than many other universities.
My DC pulled out of their Oxford interviews after passing the aptitude test as they realised the course wasn't for them (and had at that stage had an interview and been made an offer at their preferred course/university).

[senua]

Having spent a week at a Cambridge summer school and also visited her friend at a different uni for a week

Are you comparing apples and pears? A school-pupil chaperoned thing in the summer vacation is very different to the reality of adult-student life in termtime.

[Wobbliebits]

Thank you everyone, we have obviously have misjudged the oxbridge life 🙂
The opinions of people I've spoken to face to face so far seems to be that life would be all work and no play there, it's good to get a more rounded idea from you guys
Cambridge was one of the choices on her UCAS form, it would be amazing to get an offer but we're in no way expecting it. It was just something we were talking about

[Brokenbiscuit]

The opinions of people I've spoken to face to face so far seems to be that life would be all work and no play there, it's good to get a more rounded idea from you guys

In my experience, it was more work hard, play hard. Tbh, I had a more interesting and balanced life in Cambridge than I've ever had since. There were so many amazing opportunities, and so many interesting, talented people!

[Brokenbiscuit]

I should add though that the Oxbridge lifestyle isn't for everyone - the terms are short and everything is very intense. I knew quite a lot of students who struggled with mental health issues and I think the intensity proved difficult for some of them.

[Orangeplastic]

Best friend was a medic and she partied almost as much as the rest of us!!!
Also know someone who turned down a place at Oxbridge because he felt it wasn't the right cultural fit - "full of snobs" he is now a Prof in another red brick University and continues to slag off the oxbridge types he works with not really in jest. I don't think it affected his academic career to gain his qualifications outside of oxbridge - but I agree it can open some doors, but maybe less so now. When I met my dh in the 90s - his employer only recruited from Oxbridge - that is no longer the case, they wanted a more diverse workforce.

[Topseyt]

Oxbridge isn't everything. Apply if it is right for you and does a course you are interested in doing. They usually interview before offering anyway.

It was at the interview stage at Oxford that my DD1 realised that a languages degree from there was not what she wanted to do. Not unless she just wanted to read medieval French literature until her eyes bled.

[BigGreenOlives]

Has she applied to Imperial & UCL? Those courses are highly rated. From what I understand medicine at Oxford & medicine at Cambridge are taught quite differently (heresay from dd’s friends) who are mainly doing medicine at UCL & Cambridge.

[Wobbliebits]

She hasn't applied to the London uni's, the cost of living in London put her off although she could commute but really wants to leave home 😁

I think you're right about the teaching methods differing. We feel the oxbridge methods would suit her way of learning better. I think oxbridge do more one to one with the tutors and the first 3 years are all classroom based (so after 3 years you have a science degree) where as other uni's do more group based study cases and straight out into a clinical setting .... I could be wrong though.

[Needmoresleep]

Been there done that. DD was a credible Oxbridge medicine candidate but chose not to apply because:

1. She had been very ill in the summer before yr 13 and was not fully recovered so decided to skip BMAT
   

1. Her school recommended choosing courses carefully and only adding one aspirational option. Bristol, with 17 applicants per place was hers.
   
2. She is dyslexic so preferred the idea of 10 week terms rather than to cram it all into an intense 8 weeks.
   
3. She may well do 6 years and intercalate. However elsewhere she can pick the subject (and place) of her intercalation, rather than take a general academic medicine degree.
   
4. Different medical schools give weight to different things. They don't all want to select the same people. It is quite hard to write a PS which will tick the required boxes for both Oxbridge and Bristol (or other PS heavy schools.)
   

Courses can be very different. DD was spending time with a GP in her first week. I would work out what you want from a medical degree and then decide. Our assumption is that a good intercalation will be as useful as Oxbridge, should DD decide she wants to do more academic medicine. And if she doesn't she is as well off at somewhere more practical and hands on.

[goodbyestranger]

Ok well I can answer this one directly, since DS1 is a sixth year medic at Oxford who has clubbed his way happily through all six years, had a fabulous social life, held college and university positions, is a scholar and has a very comfortable ranking going forward even finding time, no doubt (since he's a big beans fan), to enjoy the undoubted delights of eating beans on toast.

So yes you are, as DS has many similar friends.

[GHGN]

People turned Oxbridge down for various reasons but I have never met anyone turning them down because they think they can't go out or eat beans on toast.

[japanesegarden]

One of my DDs chose not to apply to Oxbridge, because she didn't like the course (not medicine). Got an excellent degree elsewhere and has now started a grad scheme that she loves. The other is at Oxbridge at the moment, having a great time. Neither of them likes beans, much to my sorrow, as I love them myself. Given that the cooking facilities are quite basic at most Oxbridge colleges, liking beans would be an advantage when wanting a quick meal, as they are v suitable for a single ring. Other posters have summarised the difference in medical courses well. Your DD should think about the course, not the beans. There are good reasons to go to Oxbridge and good reasons not to - my DDs both made the right choices for them. DD2 does plenty of clubbing and staying up all night - admittedly some other uni towns have more/better clubs, but Oxbridge is not like a campus uni in the middle of nowhere, there's plenty of night life.

[hoyhoy44]

there is a great youtube channel called oxvlogs where students at oxford show you there daily life and answer questions about it

[Wobbliebits]

I will have a look at that you tube channel Hoyhoy, thanks.
Thank you also to everyone for the responses and private messages they’ve been invaluable.
I can see i have made assumptions and stand corrected!

[LoniceraJaponica]

DD isn't interested in Oxbridge for most of the reasons already stated:

1. She doesn't like the way the course is delivered - 2 or 3 years before any clinical work
   
2. Too concentrated with 8 week terms to begin with
   
3. She did UKCAT as most medical schools want that, and she didn't have the time and energy to devote to BMAT as well
   
4. All medical degrees are conferred by the GMC not the university so it doesn't matter where you do it
   
5. She is vegetarian and a bit of a foodie and would want to cater for herself
   
6. She has been predicted 3 As, and Oxbridge want some A*s
   
   "and found the students seemed a lot less mature and streetwise than my friends and I thought we were at that age"
   
   Do you think it is because the students usually live in catered halls for the duration of their degree and aren’t as independent as those who live in shared houses elsewhere? I am happy to be corrected as I don't know much about Oxbridge accommodation.
   
   Good luck with whatever she chooses.

[goodbyestranger]

Yes well Lonicera the grades probably are rather crucial.

It's absolute rubbish, the idea of immaturity. Anyhow, students do not live in college for all their six years. DS is also a vegetarian (all colleges have plenty of vegetarian options for all meals, obviously). He lived in college accommodation for three years although that was self-catering for Y2 and Y3 and in Y4, 5 and 6 has shared houses with friends.

I don't know where some of these ideas about Oxbridge medics come from! There are decided benefits to doing a degree in Oxford (or Cambridge) and apart from the chance to spend a long time in a beautiful city with all the many, many opportunities provided by those universities (for those who want a good extra curricular life), the teaching is superb. DS isn't alone in finding the contrast between the various hospitals he's been to on placement quite striking. Hospitals are not uniform in their quality, by a long way.

[Ttbb]

Oxbridge students have plenty of night life. It's just slightly less grotty. Quite frankly if she is choosing universities based on the 'experience' she's not really mature enough to be making this choice. Make her take a gap year working a minimum wage job and then see how much she values the experience over a Cambridge degree.

[LadyinCement]

at not being interested in Oxbridge because your grades aren't good enough. I don't think Oxbridge would be very interested in you, either!

[PickleFish]

If she's basing her views on Oxford on a summer course that she went on, remind her that it will be very different to a true student experience. At a summer school in a college, they were probably staying in nice college rooms right in the centre of the college, and probably eating all their meals in college (maybe even in the formal Hall bit rather than the more cafeteria style bit), probably doing their socialising there in college with activities laid on for them (especially if they were underage school children), etc. It's a very different world to be a student there for real! Yes, there are lovely perks like eating in Hall when you want - but you often don't do it every night or for every meal! You can socialise however and wherever you want - lots of students go out or to other colleges or whatever. Many will live in less picturesque modern buildings for the first year, possibly not even on the main college site; some will live in private rentals for the second year; maybe move into the 'touristy' bits that you see for their third year. They will be off to lectures all over the city in various departments.

So it will feel very different to a summer school experience where they are being looked after by a college.

Many valid reasons for turning down an offer, but make sure it's not for sterotyped reasons that don't necessarily hold true.

[Dozer]

Medicine is a challenging degree requiring many hours of study, anywhere. Being a doctor is challenging too, including in terms of working hours and conditions. Not great for work/life balance IMO! Perhaps not a great choice for those (like me) who find pressure or long hours hard.

[oklookingahead]

"And if you have an offer from oxbridge you'd be pretty insane to turn it down."
Oxbridge doesn't suit everyone - I can think of good reasons to turn it down, as well as good reasons to accept. However i assume it may still confer some advantage when looking for graduate employment in some sectors? - though I have recently heard of some employers who redact the name of the university when candidates are doing interviews. Not sure how many are doing this though.

With medicine, though, it does sound as though the courses can differ hugely - I could easily see how a student would prefer more early clinical experience. I don't know much about medical appointments - are you more likely to get F1 (is that what it's called?) posts in the 'in demand' specialisms if you have studied medicine at Oxbridge, or is that not really relevant?

[goodbyestranger]

oklookingahead there's a widely held view, certainly on MN, that where you studied doesn't matter because of the ranking system, but there's more to it than that, as you'd expect, and apparently (according to people who know better then me eg the outgoing head of the Oxford medical school etc etc) a very clear correlation as careers progress.

[Etymology23]

I went to oxbridge and I think you can certainly have good reasons to turn it down.

There are usually kitchenettes with microwave, toaster and kettle on each staircase, so plenty of opportunities for beans on toast. But not usually the compulsion to eat them because you can always go to hall/caf instead. 2nd year onwards you usually have the opportunity to go fully self catering but some colleges you can do that in first year too.

I do think you work a hell of a lot of hours at oxbridge often. There are plenty of people who go out several times a week and plenty more who don't. The clubs can be a bit ropey depending on what you want, but they're usually still good fun.

Medicine is pretty hard work anywhere but Cambridge isn't always good for everyone. It likes to pretend it is, but it can be a bit of a pressure cooker sometimes.

You don't get a "general medicine" degree from Cambridge as far as I'm aware. You intercalate in third year to take one of a range of subjects, usually a science so zoology, pathology, biochemistry are the common Ines or I think there are often some bio anthropologists. No one's degree cerficatd says what subject they studied on it - everyone just gets a BA Hons whether they were a scientist or studied English, so you can essentially just give what you studied the most appropriate name. I.e. Medicine with pathology or whatever.

[CountessOfStrathearn]

"All medical degrees are conferred by the GMC not the university so it doesn't matter where you do it"

LoniceraJaponica, no, they aren't. I suggest she looks into it properly. You definitely get your degree from your university but you are then all registered with the GMC.

"You don't get a "general medicine" degree from Cambridge as far as I'm aware. You intercalate in third year to take one of a range of subjects, "

Etymology23, not quite here. Cambridge (can't comment on Oxford) students do a pre-clinical BA and then can pretty much choose their subject for their honours year. Then they do the next 3 years in medicine, so CVs will say BA (Hons) in Harry Potter as well as their MB BChir.

Oxbridge isn't for everyone. Terms for pre-clinical medicine are short and intense but there is plenty of time for fun, extra-curricular stuff and socialising (all very work hard, play hard), and there really are all sorts of people here so you are practically guaranteed to find somewhere you fit in.