If you are vitamin D deficient, what have you been prescribed?

[whowantsadog]

I've recently found out that my vitamin D levels are so low that it's not possible to get a reading on them (apparently below 30 doesn't register?) However, when I've collected my prescription they seem a much lower dosage on prescription than what I bought last week in Sainsbury's, and on googling it seems people are taking doses of around 5000iu for similar deficiencies. Do I need to double up? (Picture shows prescription on left and over the counter on the right).

I'm also hoping that you're going to tell me that getting your vit D levels back up transformed your life, helped you drop 2 stone and stopped you feeling 90 years old?

[buckingfastard17]

I was diagnosed as being deficient by an endocrinologist 7 weeks ago. He said my levels were 0.2.
I am taking 20,000 calciferol once a week. Will be tested again after 12 weeks.
Haven't noticed much improvement in my symptoms though. But am also looking at potential thyroid problems so not sure which symptoms relate to what

[IcaMorgan]

I had 20,000 once a week for 8 weeks then 800 daily for 12 weeks

[Bettertobehealthy]

hi whowantsadog ,

IF you respond as an average adult , then IF you take 1000 IU daily , then your blood level of Vitamin D will rise by 25 nmol/litre after about 2 to 3 months.

It is generally recommended, by Vitamin D researchers, that your blood level should be around 100 -150 , for optimum health. This is regarded as within the normal band , even by the NHS in the UK. By normal , I mean a healthy level. Very many people are well below this level , in fact most people in the UK are at about 1/2 to 1/3 of that level. Particularly in winter, when the sunlight at our latitude ( UK) is not strong enough to make any vitamin D in our skin. In addition , many people use sunscreen , in strong sunlight , which stops your skin making any vitamin D , even in summer. It is no surprise that most people are low.

Typical symptoms would be , tiredness, lethargy , bone and muscular pain , increased susceptibility to infections both viral and bacterial, etc etc.

IF your level was sub 30 , then in order to get to where I have indicated , it would be eminently acceptable to take 5000 IU per day , in the long term . review after 3 months say , and if your level is between 100 - 150 , then continue with that dose , if it is somewhat above , then maybe drop down a thousand or two. IF you simply stop taking any supplement , then your level will just drop to your current level in about 4- 6 months after stopping. ( unless you make lifestyle changes )

have a look at these threads , which you should find interesting ...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2421492-Vitimin-D-can-it-have-this-effect

where we discuss Vitamin D , many people's experiences, doses, etc. It is a long read , but should be of some help.

Also , for bone and muscular pain , have a look here ,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2377129-Quick-Self-Check-for-Vitamin-D-deficiency

best of luck, I hope this is helpful !


BTBH

[Footle]

Thanks to posters for info about this. Bettertobehealthy, could I ask what your background is?

[Bettertobehealthy]

hi footle

You wanted to know my background - well, I'm science educated , UK, Russell group University, a B.Sc. I was diagnosed very deficient in VitD , about 4 years ago. At which time I made an effort to learn as much as possible about VitD , etc. I have followed the most up to date research. I find that I agree with the conclusions of many of these University and hospital researchers, that people living a western lifestyle , at higher latitudes, like the UK, are very likely to be suffering from lack of this essential micro-nutrient. I am not however a Doctor, which means I am not bound to apply various consensus committee views upon VitD physiology. ( many of these views are desperately out of date - when viewed through the prism of the latest research )

I notice that you reported that your level was just 16 , which is very low. If you have taken 10,000 IU per day for 30 days then you should be well on your way to correcting your deficiency. However , the human body requires approx 70 IU per Kg daily , from all sources , sun, food, supplement. From this you should be able to work out what amount you might need to take ongoing. A small dose , like 400 IU , is unlikely to do much for you , in the long term it will raise your VitD level by just 10 nmol/l . Try and keep your level around 120 -140 , or thereabouts. Your physiology is attuned to that level. Your doses of 10,000 IU per day , would , if continued indefinitely, raise your level to about 180 - 200 , if you respond as an average person. HOWEVER , we all respond differently , with 6 :1 variability. That is why testing your blood level is so important. It will take about 60 to 90 days of any particular dose of supplementation for your blood level to reach equilibrium. So after 30 days of 10,000 IU you may be about 1/2 way to the final level at that dose ( It is a sigmoid dose response curve ) Those of us with gut absorption problems IBS , Gall Bladder, Crohn's , etc , may not be able to absorb, hence our low levels. Possibly yourself included? See what your level is after those 30 Days , then decide what to supplement with. If it is still quite low, then perhaps you should try sublingual spray , which is absorbed directly into the bloodstream, bypassing the digestive system.

Best of luck. Get back to me if you need any more info.
I have posted quite a bit here on Mumsnet about VitD , search my nickname . With bone and muscle aches you might possibly be suffering from osteomalacia, especially if you limit your calcium intake . ( No dairy ? )

BTBH

[Katymac]

BTBH can you buy a Vit D test - my GP says I don't need to be retested & I'd like to check my levels (I had to fight like buggery to get the test in the first place)

[Bettertobehealthy]

Hi katy yes you can buy a test. probably the easiest and cheapest is here .

www.vitamindtest.org.uk/

It is an NHS path Lab, City hospital at Sandwell , West Midlands, UK. They will also do tests for international customers. They charge £28 for UK , and £5 extra for international postage. Their test is a small bloodspot , on blotting paper. Your results are e-mailed to you within a week. You can order online - or on the phone , with credit card. See their website.

Good Luck.

BTBH

[Katymac]

Thanks I have been suplementing for several years but with my absorption difficulties I wanted to check if it was working & that I wasn't overdosing

[Katymac]

Looking at it I'll do DH & DD too as they are vulnerable anyway

[Footle]

Thanks, BTBH. I do eat and drink dairy. I no longer have a gall bladder. I'm not far off 70yrs old. By your calculation it looks as though I'd need a minimum of 5000 a day - but see below ! I'm nervous of sunlight because I burn easily and have keratosis - think I said that already.

The lab you recommend ( though with a different postal address ) seems to be the one that someone recommends on another forum. This person had been taking 5000 IU a day for some years. The GP wouldn't test, so they used this lab and were told their levels are very high with a danger of toxicity. The lab advised them to stop all supplements for two months, and sent them a free test kit to offer the GP when it comes to retesting. This seems very responsible behaviour on the lab's part.

[Bettertobehealthy]

OK .... I hope that info was helpful.

If you were to be overdosing , which is very, very unlikely , then the condition to look for is hypercalcaemia ( excess calcium in the blood).

IF you are taking highish doses under the direction of a doctor , because you have a specific illness, then one would assume , it would have been checked ? at some point ?

A healthy person has never shown toxicity, in the literature, at levels below 500 nmol/l or daily ongoing doses of less than 30,000 IU. i.e it is very unlikely , unless you have conditions such as sarcoidosis , Williams syndrome, granulomatosis, hyperparathyroidism. These very rare conditions could produce hypercalcaemia whereby compromised cells overproduce the VitaminD hormone, i.e. calcitriol ( 1.25(OH)D3 )

BTBH

[Bettertobehealthy]

That last to Katymac

[Katymac]

He gave me 1000 but I couldn't absorb them (iBS) I also have b12, foliate, iron, Zinc deficiencies & I take K magnesium & calcium too along side the D spray (3000)

I'm just being cautious, I guess - I'm done with waiting for my gp; they got me diagnoses of ME/FM/hypermobility & iBS & the longer I supplement the better I feel

[Katymac]

I was 26, DD was tested at 24 so we know we have a problem but they won't retest as they have treated it!

[Bettertobehealthy]

footle Yes, the lab I recommended was an NHS lab, and their numbers for normal, high and low are the standard NHS figures.

They consider 220 nmol/litre highish and potentially close to the toxic level. However, humans living an outdoor lifestyle , such as lifeguards can reach those levels naturally. It is not uncommon, although not the commonest level. Mostly , we reach about 120 -140.

Nobody has ever been toxic at levels below 500, in the literature. Or using doses of less than 30,000 IU daily.. The labs have to be super cautious. As far as I know , no lifeguards have ever fallen sick from hypercalcaemia. They are generally a healthy bunch. They are out in the sun !

I have suggested that you try and get to around 120- 140 , that is the best, in my opinion. Some people will have a greater response than others, that is why I suggest that testing your blood level is best.

If you have no gall bladder , then you may not be able to retrieve all the vitaminD dissolved in the oil based supplement capsules. A sublingual spray will bypass the digestive system.

Why not try , 3000 IU per day spray every day , then test your level in 2 - 3 months. Look for about 120 - 140 or thereabouts. If your level is well below, then increase a bit . If your level is well above then decrease a bit.

Hope this is helpful. !

BTBH .

PS. Why not get your calcium level checked, if possible, when checking your VitD blood level. This will put your mind at rest . ! See my previous post above.

[Footle]

BTBH, FYI
The person in question has a reading of 410. The supplement had not been prescribed. The lab advised that the GP should check calcium levels and kidney function after a three month break.

[MusicIsMedicine]

BTBH brilliant info, thanks for sharing.

[Bettertobehealthy]

musicismedicine Glad to be of help ! My aim is to prompt people to use the knowledge that is now available to improve their own health. If even just one person can avoid needing a walking stick , by reading my posts , then it's worth it. If pregnant mothers had a level of vitamin D as I have suggested, then the number of cases of pre-eclampsia would halve, saving many lives, and so on... there are so so many health benefits to having a good level of vitamin D it is difficult to list them all.


footle my word, that person does have an extremely high level of 25 hydroxyD3 in their blood. The lab has done exactly the right thing. I would have thought that there may be some kind of rare genetic abnormality causing that. Please have a look at the following , I am posting a chart showing the variation in response to supplementation , collected from over 7000 people. It may be of interest to you , also , here is a lecture , recorded at a Vit D conference, given by one of the worlds foremost experts in the subject. It is a bit technical , but the gist should be clear enough its all about the levels we need, how toxic effects arise , where we can expect them and why etc. I hope all this is useful, to you and anyone else interested !

BTBH

PS. In both cases make sure you don't mix up the use of American Units ng/ml and UK units which are nmol/l. To move from ng/ml to nmol/l multiply by 2.5. The serum levels, 25(OH)D ,that are being discussed are the blood levels that result from taking VitD3 supplements. The serum level is the intermediate stage , before the body converts it to VitD hormone 1,25(OH)D for use in cells to read genes.
In the UK, your doctors test results will be in nmol/L of blood serum level of 25(OH)D. i.e. mostly 30 - 70 for the general population , but often a lot lower, resulting in many health problems. Many Vit D researchers recommend 100 - 150
.

[Footle]

BTBH, I've gone cross eyed over the latter part of your post, but I'll keep trying.

The GP of the person with the high levels reacted very helpfully, acknowledging that her patient had only been trying to improve health issues.

[whowantsadog]

Hi Bettertobehealthy - thanks so much for all of the really useful info. I've stocked up and am now also dosing up the whole family, so in a way there is good that has come out of this. I just wouldn't have known that we all needed to supplement if I hadn't got these results. Your posts have been really helpful.

[Footle]

Thanks for starting the thread , whowants. Very timely and very useful.

[whowantsadog]

No worries Footle, I hope your blood test shows that you're on the way back up again! Are you feeling any different? I seem to have achy bones too, I was supplementing on a low level until I read this thread, but I'm hoping now I've boosted it that things will get better.

[QuestionableMouse]

I was on 40000 once a week for seven weeks. Now taking a 1000 tab every day, but I need to go back and get my bloods redone.

[Footle]

Thanks whowants, I will post on this thread about the result when
I get it but it may be a week or so. I am starting to feel less achey but not dramatically so. I can imagine it may take a while.

[Footle]

Questionable , that's 1k ?