Do you eat the same food at the same time as your children - everyday?

[McDreamyGonagall]

This has got me thinking after reading another thread.

I really want to increase the amount of times we do this. DH prefers to eat later as he has quite a late lunch but I feel we are missing out on enjoying time with the children, teaching them manners etc.

We do eat with them 2 or 3 times a week, just not every night. Also I tend to cook something different on the nights we don't eat with them. What do you do?

[hurricane]

I think what this thread reinforces is just how emotive eating and mealtimes can be. Again just reinforces my point that so much of children's response to food is nothing to do with the food itself (proved by the fact that most children reject new foods before they've even tried them). Food is offered as a form of nurture and love by parents but also turns into a source of conflict and control and anxiety. If children reject food it's just as likely that they're doing that because they want to get some kind of control/ assert their identity which is a very normal part of growing up the same way as kids might want to choose their own clothes or whatever (my dd1 went through a phase of refusing to wear trousers!). Of course, children go through picky phases just as they go through tantrums and phases when they want to wear the same shoes every day or whatever. The important thing is to remain positive about food, keep messages consistent, provide role models and so on.

Just so nobody gets the wrong impression. My kids were not born good eaters. I've had the same issues with them that every other parent has. The dds don't come to the dinner table saying, 'ooh, there's an unusual looking vegetable I've never tried before I'd love some of that mummy,'. Dd1 (5) still occasionally refuses some foods. Rice, for example, weirdly. But we have strategies for dealing with this. We might make a risotto for example with rice and prawns (which she loves) and then she eats it up but the main thing we do apart from eating together the same things is to keep repeating the hurricane mantra, 'OK, dd1 if you try it and don't like it just eat the rest of what's on your plate and leave the rest,' We do not have any more discussion about it and give it no more attention instead moving on to another conversation. 9 times out of 10 when we look around at dd1's plate (which we don't need to do obsessively because we don't do that hover, shovel, wipe thing which a lot of mums do who don't eat with their dds and is so incredibly off-putting) then she's eaten almost all of it.

By the way of course it's possible for siblings with the same parents to have different attitdues to food and eating. Of course, parents treat their kids differently esp. boys and girls and PFBs and last born children. If you speak to my sister (as PFB) she has a very different perspective of her childhood and our parents' parenting than I do. They were much more strict and controlling with her as the PFB. Arguably she had a much harder time. I'd so no coincidence that she's the one with mild food issues and I'm not.

And of course kids are influenced by their peers (one reason why I hate fussy eating because they end up influencing my kids and making them thing that they're the weird ones for liking vegetables for example) and by schools and by advertising and so on.

So, yes, of course, a parent can be doing all the 'right' things to encourage healthy eating and still have a child who is occasionally or always fussy.

[hurricane]

If you want proof of some of these things just look at some of the other threads. Tremendous anxiety about what and how much children (who are often described as perfectly healthy and of normal weight) eat. Other mums talking about how their kids are bullied because they have a range of foods in their lunchboxes instead of cheese strings and white bread sandwiches (this is something that fussy eaters sometimes do without intending to be nasty and is worth thinking about). We have an obession about weighing babies in this country which is not the same in other countries and is arguably quite dangerous given that this children and adults in this country are much more likely to suffer from the consequences of overeating than undereating (especially as until recently Health Visitors were suggesting that breastfed babies were underweight when it was the bottlefed babies who skew the scales upwards. I had visits from HV every 2 weeks because of this and was fortunately well-read enough and strong enough to ignore her constant weighing and clucking so carried on breastfeeding. She'd never even heard that breastfed babies are likely to be lighter than bottlefed ones and had no idea that there is much more of a link between bottlefeeding and obesity than breastfeeding etc).

[saggermakersknockturnalley]

hun - We all agree on the last line of your first post this morning.

'So, yes, of course, a parent can be doing all the 'right' things to encourage healthy eating and still have a child who is occasionally or always fussy.'

[hurricane]

Yes, but then if the fussiness becomes long-term and its not because of the food itself (as in not liking the food because it really isn't normal not to like a huge range of foods) then in most cases psychologists would see this as a symptom of other psychological issues or the fact that the parents have given in to the fussiness.

On the baby weighing thing, I can really see how this can be the start of a lot of anxiety about eating and weight gain which can become a real problem. The messages you get is that weight gain is really important (which obviously it is when babies are very young) but also that you're a good mother if your baby puts on weight and it's a huge problem if they're not gaining weight (a problem which is often medicalised so that babies are sometimes forced back into hospitatl or when I was just beginning breastfeeding dd1 I was made to give her a bottle when she was too sleepy to feed still bloody annoyed about this!). You will hear mums comparing their babies birth weight and weight gain in queues and that whole taking them to be weighed every couple of weeks is mostly totally unnecessary and causes a huge amount of anxiety which leads to the endless shovelling and worrying which is totally counterproductive.

[hurricane]

Once again I'm talking about real eating problems here like not eating solid food at five years old or not eating any vegetables not just not liking aubergines and raisins or whatever.

[hurricane]

I would see vomiting on eating anything new or that a child didn't particularly like as a real eating problem also by the way.

[hurricane]

And even in that scenario saggars i.e. where a parent seems to be doing all the 'right' things but the child is still is fussy I don't think a parent should give up and go down the cheese sandwich route any more than a parent would give up if a child refused to wear the colour blue (which might be the colour of its school uniform) or if a child refused to share or if a child refused to cross the road. It's no different.

[saggermakersknockturnalley]

I think that's the crux of the matter hurricane.

I have a very fussy child but I don't see it as a problem because she's not under or overweight, she's not malnourished or living on junk food. She eats plenty of what she likes. No problem.

[hurricane]

Well that's where we have to agree to differ. I would see having a child who was a very fussy eater (notice I use the word 'very' and I'm talking about this as a fairly long-term thing not having a phase durng the terribe twos or whatever) as a problem if it was MY OWN child for all sorts of reasons. Obviously not as serious as a child who refused to eat anything but that would be an anorexic (a recognized complaint which has nothing to do with the food itself and everything to do with someone's psychology and attitude to food). In MY OWN CASE I would see it in the same way as a child who refused to go to school sometimes or refused to take on new experiences or whatever except that IN MY OWN VIEW food is so central to one's health and view of oneself as a social animal that it would be more important.

[hurricane]

And perhaps we have different views about what 'very fussy' means. Obviously if she's getting a balanced diet and is healthy and can be accommodated in social environments and you don't see it as a problem then it's not. But if you don't see it as a problem I wonder why you talk about her as a 'very fussy eater' on threads like these.

[saggermakersknockturnalley]

I'm glad we finally got there.

I'm off to work.

[saggermakersknockturnalley]

Sorry crossed with your last post. My acknowledgment of her fussiness doesn't necessarily equate with it being a problem.

She is very fussy hurricane, no fruit or fruit flavours whatsoever being just one example and she's 13 so I guess you'd say it was fairly long term. She'd have you running for the hills

Got to go, else I'll get the sack!

[hurricane]

Have a good day Saggars

[morningpaper]

I would see vomiting on eating anything new or that a child didn't particularly like as a real eating problem also by the way.

I did spend a lot of time worrying about it when she was very small (she didn't eat solids until 13 months or so) and she did the rounds of paediatricians at the time (this was when they were given solids at 3 months) - they all said she seems fine.

She's seen paediatricians since and they have said she is fine.

TBH I think she is just REALLY REALLY sensitive to tastes and smells (and pretty much everything sensory) - she can detect someone eating a banana (YUCK MUMMY!) a mile away....

She is sick/gagging VERY rarely indeed now - but she won't eat many foods and there is no way I would say "You get this or nothing" when 90% of what I eat she will refuse or gag on

(Also the this-or-nothing is fine if you aren't going to be up in the night with a child that won't sleep because she is really hungry)

[morningpaper]

I don't see it as a 'problem'

I see it as a jolly nuisance

But I think there have always been children who eat extremely restricted diets (my pocket-sized Aunty apparently lived on "cheese and chocolate" according to my grandmother)

[hurricane]

Obviously I can't comment specifically on your dd morningpaper. I'm surprised paediatricians would say that a child who regularly gags or vomits on food is 'fine'. Maybe she is fine medically (as in she's ok weight wise so she's obviously getting enough) but I'm surprised she's not been referred to other specialists in children's eating problems.

I take your point about having to deal with a hungry child if you refuse to give them alternatives but this is the same with any aspect of parenting isn't it? I have had to deal with my children's tantrums when I refuse to buy them chocolate at the supermarket counter (dd1 did the kicking screaming kind on a fairly regular basis for any reason and sometimes no reason) but after saying no consistently since they were born they don't ask me any more (although they still look longingly and occasionally pick up the chocolates); parents have to deal with kids who don't want to go to school or don't want to brush their teeth or anything. I'll never forget how bloody awful it was to wean both dds off the breast and on to bottles and both of them starved themselves and cried fairly solidly for days but in all these cases it's a case of short-term pain for long-term gain and the gains are as much for the kids as for the parents. So yes I personally would happily put up with a hungry child for an afternoon or even a whole day, or night or longer if it meant they learned to have a healthier relationship with food, try a range of foods and stopped manipulating me to gain attention for undesirable behaviour.

[hurricane]

Most parents just wouldn't give in to faddiness in other aspects of children's lives. All children try and get their own way in ways which are inconvenient for us or damaging to themselves (like they might refuse to leave the house, or refuse to wear clothes, or refuse to put sun cream on, or refuse baths or swimming pools) and most of the time most parents don't put up with it. I just don't see why it should be any different when it comes to food except that food has such emotional and psychological significnce. Some mothers hate the idea of starving their kids (which they're not), other mothers and fathers have unresolved issues themselves to do with food. But as I've said before in most cases where children have real food problems these are issues to do with BEHAVIOUR and the food is very very often a symptom of other kinds of emotional or behavioural problems (most of which are quite normal and just to do with growing up and developing an identity) but they still need addressiing in the same way that you would address any other aspect of your child's emotionaland behvioural development

[haychee]

incredibly well written hurricane.

I agree totally!

Morningpaper your dd is an extreme case and i feel, needs specialist attention rather than the advice here on mumsnet. However im sure you are able to identify if it needs persuing down medical routes or if it is indeed getting better over time by itself.

"short term pain for long time gain" my goodness its fantastic! This phrase is everything to me its what im all about, its been the crux of every arguement ive had here on mn. Thankyou hurricane.

[morningpaper]

Hurricane my dd goes to nursery a couple of days a week and if there is nothing she will eat she will eat nothing at all from 8am - 6pm. That's pretty common.

The paeds etc. just said to give her something she will eat every day e.g. bread and keep offering family food. Which seems far more sensible advice to me than to offer her something and then refuse to feed her until she eats something that she hates (and I DID try this, really wish I hadn't, but just found that after a few hours she would become unmanagable and after a day or two she would become lethargic - or when she was younger, just breastfeed constantly, which was hardly a solution). We saw a LOT of 'experts' including a panel interview with 5 paeds/physios/dieticians/psche's when she was about 2 - they all agree that there is nothing wrong, she is maybe just highly sensitive to tastes and textures.

Or just fcking fussy, in the old lingo.

Until you have had a really fussy eater, you really don't know what it means TBH.

[lazymoo]

Morningpaper, from the other side as an Adult fussy eater, you sound a wonderful mam, and I just wanted to say, that although your DD could grow out of this, she might never change though. I do so hope she does change as it is horrible being a fussy eater when you are an Adult.

[haychee]

morningpaper.

Fair enough, there certainly are varying degrees of fussiness over food. Your dds case is extreme, to ask for egss and promptly vomit it all back is bizarre. I cant think of any of the fussy children i have met to ask for something they do not like. The type of fussy children we are talking generally about here are those that refuse to try anything new because they know they have the back up of mum providing something familiar instead. Its entirely different to your situation. We are concerned about those that have ended up on a limited diet and the impact of this on the family life. We were not directing our comments at someone who has seeked various professional advice for the problem, its directed at those who are, as we see it, encouraging a poor diet either for a quiet life or as a way of ensuring the child always gets what it wants. This is what both myself, hurricane and Tassi were trying to say. We see it around us, i see it with some friends and at my sisters house regularly and it aggrevates me to see them being so weak and giving in to their children and then complaining about it. They complain about having to prepare lots of different options for the different family members because not any one likes what the others do. Most of the time if they had of stuck to their guns in the first place they wouldnt now have such fussy children to feed. My niece decided she didnt like breakfast cereal at 2 or 3 years old, and for a quiet life my sister let her have a penguin. This habit has now stuck and she still has penguins for breakfast and she is now 11! This is just one example of her situation, she also will only eat chicken or steak (cooked in certain ways) for main meals. How awkward can you imagine that is for the poor mother. Your case is severe, its not like any other that i was referring to.