Self styled 'good men'

[lifeissweet]

I have had a conversation with a male friend recently. It went a bit like this:

Me: 'Men don't realise that they can scare, worry and intimidate women just by their presence sometimes.'

Him: 'think I do. I do things like cross the street if I'm walking behind a woman at night.

'Well yes. That's good, but I think even in less obviously dangerous situations. I don't think men know how their 'help' can come across.'

I gave the example of how I went to the petrol station to pump up my tyres. I do this often. I in no way look like I don't know what I'm doing. Yet a man decided to come over to offer his assistance.

'Well that's good, isn't it?'

'Not really, no. I found it massively patronising, when I think it highly unlikely he would have offered to help a bloke in the same situation - even if he didn't seem to know what he was doing. Then I felt I had to placate and offer gratitude so that I didn't piss him off and risk him turning aggressive.
These incidents happen all the time in various situations. Women accepting 'help' from men that they don't want or need for fear of repercussions if they refuse.'

'Well I would offer help, but I wouldn't get aggressive if you said no. Why would you assume that?'

'Experience - but also, by offering help to strangers, how do they know you are 'one of the good guys' and not one of the 'fuck off, ugly bitch, I was only being nice' arseholes? They can't, so don't put women in that situation and leave them alone unless they ask for your help.'

'Right. Ok. Don't help? That doesn't sound right. What about if I saw a woman who had broken down on the side of the road. Should I stop and help?'

'Would you do it for a man?'

'Depends on the situation, but probably not because he's not as vulnerable. There is a reason why the AA come to single females faster. They are more vulnerable.'

'But that's the point. I would find that quite uncomfortable exactly because I'm more vulnerable. I have roadside assistance, I would be in that position again of having a strange (quite large) man giving me attention I haven't asked for that would make me feel doubly vulnerable. Even more so at night or when there is no one else around.'

'But I'm not like that and if they wanted to be left alone, I'd just go.'

'But how would a woman know that?'

'I would still rather stop and help than leave her vulnerable, though.'

Ok...

Am I being over-sensitive and do other women feel like me, or is he seeing himself as 'the good guy' potentially causing women more discomfort?

Something about the 'nice guy' thing slightly gives me the creeps and I can't articulate quite why.

[VillKrill]

Most women aren't as terrified of men as feminists are, and feminists make up a small proportion on women - 7% I think.

Eh? Where on earth is this stat from?!

[CheeseMmmm]

Yes loads of women are wary of men. Girls too. Not scared, not all the time.

But if you haven't noticed that women tend to keep an eye on their drinks, avoid walking alone late at night etc etc then you really haven't been paying attention.

In fact IME women in general often have a view, boys will be boys, you know what men are like, and victim blaming is rife which comes with a pretty dodgy view about men. While loads of feminists don't think that men can't control themselves if alone with an attractive woman in a short skirt who has had a few drinks.

Very few women/ girls describe themselves as feminists- it's always been a dirty word. 7% is more than I would have guessed! However. Not taking the label doesn't mean you disagree with any or all of the things that feminists tend to be concerned with. Plus of course there are many flavours of feminism. And those who consider themselves feminists will have opposite views on some things. Eg sex work is work.

[CheeseMmmm]

Krispy women know that. Again often from experience. I wouldn't say home though more people they should be safe with. Have you a source for that stat?

The fact is that the message that is pushed hardest is that women and girls should feel at risk most from strangers. Especially if they are wearing certain clothes, out at night for a drink etc etc. Which is interesting in itself.

[CheeseMmmm]

'CheeseMmmm

In the end what I think most women and girls want more is to not be approached by strangers. I mean unless we've just been run over or something! Ykwim.

I don't think this applies to 'most women and girls' tbh. Most women aren't as terrified of men as feminists are, and feminists make up a small proportion on women - 7% I think. I'm more than happy for a bloke to help me lift off my pickup truck t'

Ah ok I meant generally not offering help but. All of it. Because what 99% of the time it's just random nothing to do with anything. You know the man who strikes up conversation at the bus stop with a schoolgirl and persists when she obviously v uncomfy. The man who makes a creepy comment on the street. The man who comes and sits with you in the pub with no indication he cares or notices whether you mind or not. The whole shebang.

[powershowerforanhour]

You should be more scared at home, and in terms of general violence should be more wary of your husband than of strangers.

Somebody always comes onto this type of thread to say this. As if the reader's nice apparently normal, never exhibited any aggressive behaviour to her or anyone else, husband presents the same statistical risk to her as a partner with a history of being a serial abuser or something. Also- more people are killed driving cars than riding motorbikes but that doesn't mean motorbikes are safer.

[CheeseMmmm]

That's a bizarre thing to say.

And why husbands? Partners, fathers, brothers?

But anyway. I would like to see a source for that stat.

Because when it comes to sexual assault and rape. I can't believe 60% happens at home. What about the high incidence in schools? Or male friends, boyfriends? University mates? What about the amount of indecent exposure/ touching and worse that happens on buses, tubes? Out and about in general? In pubs and clubs? What about exes? And men in positions of trust? Police, doctors, sports coaches, religious leaders, friends of family?

Source for that stat please.

[WhiteVanWoman91]

I dont think it's 60% at home either. I read the office national statistics a while back. It was 30 something % at home and 25% while being followed home. So not technically all at home but over 50% either at home or on way back.

[CheeseMmmm]

I am really interested in the source of the stat saying 60% rapes (and sexual assaults? Either way) at home.

I really hope we get it otherwise it's just again women being told a 'fact' and expected to discuss. When it's not a fact at all.

[WhiteVanWoman91]

I think I’ve found the article I read. It wasn’t the Sexual Offences Overview, it was the Nature of Sexual Offences which breaks down the characteristics.

[WhiteVanWoman91]

Ok, looks like the statistic posted earlier is actually sort of right. 63% of rapes/assaults happen in a home and only 9% in a public place.

For the years ending March 2017 and March 2020 combined, the most common location for rape or assault by penetration to occur was in the victim’s home (37%), followed by the perpetrator’s home (26%). The assault had taken place in a park, other open public space, car park or on the street for 9% of victims (Appendix Table 8).

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/natureofsexualassaultbyrapeorpenetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

[CheeseMmmm]

Ah ok. So the point

'. You should be more scared at home, and in terms of general violence should be more wary of your husband than of strangers.' with the 63% stat was not right. Which is just I mean. Obvious to most people I'd think if consider it for s couple secs.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Women face the most domestic violence at 0.3% vs 0.1% of men

Can you show your work @KrispyKremeDream? Because that seems extremely low. I thought it was more like 5% in the last 12 months, which would mean a lot more lifetime. And that's reporting, which means massively more is happening.

Working in housing you get reports weekly. From neighbours etc. Women who never report to police.

[WhiteVanWoman91]

I’m not sure if the stat I posted was the one being referred to. It does show 63% being in either victim or offender home.

[CheeseMmmm]

That's totally different from saying that 63% at home so women have most to fear from husband. At all.

[PurpleOkapi]

Seems like you're both going in circles here, honestly. IMHO, it's silly to be angry because someone offers to help you. Even if the guy at the petrol station did assume that a woman is more likely to need his help, and even if he's wrong about that, so what? The bottom line is still that he's offering to help someone because he thinks they might need it. That's not a bad thing. And you seem to be saying that it's fine for him to stop to help men by the side of the road, but not women. That's not better.

[CheeseMmmm]

I've had plenty of times men offer to 'help' and then be creepy/ aggressive etc.

The help can be an excuse to approach, happens a lot. Or other excuses obv. Or just randomly decide they want to talk to you for whatever reason!

[WhiteVanWoman91]

That's totally different from saying that 63% at home so women have most to fear from husband. At all.

Tbh, I don’t really care. I just posted because I remembered some of the statistics from the ONS data. I also read the data on knife crimes etc because it interests me. I don't spend my free time looking for data to support my poor little women argument like lots of feminists do.

I’m not particularly scared of men or walking around on my own and I’m happy to chat with a bloke while waiting for a bus. It’s what normal people do.

[CheeseMmmm]

You don't really care about where and by who women and girls are raped?

Well ok that's frank!

[WhiteVanWoman91]

No, not any more than I care about any other victim of serious violence including men. I read lots of published info out of interest but women living in most developed countries would be the last women I’d worry about if I was going to worry. It’s like the women who bang on about female homicides. They’re obv horrific but you’re many times more likely to choke to death on your food of die on the way to work. This obsession with male murderers and dark alleys seems weird and unhealthy to me.

[Beefcurtains79]

🤢

[Eyesofdisarray]

Oh the 'what about the menz' eh??
If a woman is happy to chat to a man she doesn't know or accept help from a man she doesn't know then fine. That's her call. But some women aren't and men should appreciate that.
Walking around as a woman often involves some element of risk assessment.

Great article @PicsInRed. The comments were, er, interesting 🤔

[Thelnebriati]

Its not an obsession with murders and dark alleys; its women trying to work out how to go about their everyday business without being harassed.

'Scared' women surrounded by 7 men in park who forced them to hand over social media details, and I'd bet you a tenner they all think of themselves as 'good men'.

''The incident wasn’t taken up by the police as no actual crime had taken place, despite the intimidating behaviour of the men.''
www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/women-surrounded-seven-men-who-22038080

But yeah, nothing to see here. Women do it too I expect.

[WhiteVanWoman91]

Oh the 'what about the menz' eh??

So I shouldn't care about people who aren't the same as myself? Er, ok.

[WhiteVanWoman91]

'Scared' women surrounded by 7 men in park who forced them to hand over social media details, and I'd bet you a tenner they all think of themselves as 'good men'.

I think you'd probs lose a tenner! London/thugs/hanging around in parks suggests probably gangster/chav types.

[Sparklfairy]

What i find interesting about your OP is he would approach a woman because she is vulnerable, but there is a disconnect in recognising that they might feel vulnerable in his presence. Id go as far as to say he is being wilfully ignorant that any strange man approaching a woman is a possible threat.

We teach kids "stranger danger" but we'd think it very very odd if the stranger became affronted whining "but I'M not a kidnapper/paedophile!!"