Skip to main content
Skip to main navigation
Skip to talk navigation

Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Saved Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Flip

Feminism: sex and gender

1 2 3 4

Feminism: sex and gender

Feminism: chat

Any advice/links to educate dh who is defensive when I highlight male privelege?

90 replies

buckeejit · 01/09/2021 20:18

Was complaining to a nurse friend yest about my 3 brothers not cooking or helping with personal care for dm who is end of life. All their wives do it instead, (they aren't totally shit & are present a lot but just could be helping more in these practical ways Imo). I made a throwaway comment about men & their powerful penis not having to do the donkey work. Relayed it all to dh & was complaining in general about male privilege when he started with some whatabouttery totally moving the conversation away from this. He feels defensive & thinks I make sweeping statements & feels personally attacked.

I've told him today I felt really unsupported by his diversion & he's not a good ally as he's part of the problem if he's not part of the solution. He says he feels attacked by my 'sweeping statements'.

Walls are up & Id really like him to change his attitudes. So any articles/podcasts that might not offend his manliness?

Thank you

OP posts:

Report

AffronttoBS · 03/09/2021 20:18

Sorry, Your tone is awful OP. The narrative is just like a script that all the other SJW, diversity officers, identity warriors, wokeists use.

buckeejit · 03/09/2021 23:26

@saraclara I'm so sorry for your loss. I agree with you that dignity can feel compromised with catheter etc, but at this stage we're between a rock & a hard place.

@AffronttoBS I don't know what sjw is & I don't have a script. I did get to that angry stage with dh as he was ignoring what I was saying due to feeling offended on behalf of men. If you're not acknowledging there's a problem then you can't be part of a solution.

OP posts:

saraclara · 03/09/2021 23:53

All the best @buckeejit. I know how hard it is. And sometimes it's easier to focus on this sort of behaviour from others, than on more difficult stuff. And yes, your brothers should be stepping up. I didn't mean to imply differently.

I just find some posts (not yours) lacking in empathy. To some degree you have to be businesslike about intimate care. I get that. But I found it difficult to accept that PP's post. I had to use a bedpan at home once when I had severe vertigo and couldn't even move my head. And ridiculously, I really struggled with my DH having to deal with it. So I was particularly sensitive to his needs and feelings when we had to do those things for him for weeks.

I hope your mum's journey is as comfortable as it can be for her and for you all.

LobsterNapkin · 03/09/2021 23:56

If you go into a discussion with a spouse with the idea that you're educating them, even if you don't actually say that, it's not likely to go well. It's just something about the attitude involved in such an exchange. Sometimes a spouse won't agree with you. You might be able to convince them, but educating them is condescending.

buckeejit · 04/09/2021 06:57

Thanks @saraclara I really appreciate it & hope you & your family are healing as best you can. A small message of support like yours means so much right now. Definitely there are diversion emotions at play to distract from the grief. The last couple of days I can't get over how shit some of my parents lifelong friends have been & am really upset about this. It feels so unfair that my mum has spent her life thinking of & doing for others & most of those people aren't showing up when the chips are down.

@LobsterNapkin I get what you're saying & appreciate your point but can't help be disappointed that few of the men in my life recognise the important issue of inequality for what it is. I do think it's blinkered & ignorant of them & I feel let down. The conversation started gently without me thinking that I was trying to educate dh & escalated when he consistently diverted the conversation with whatabouttery. When it boils down to it though, isn't that what anyone who's highlighting these issues is doing-trying to educate others? Otherwise they already know the problem is there & are happier for women to take on the brunt of it rather than stepping up & saying 'I can do this....'. I don't think you can be an innocent bystander on this issue. Perhaps I need to find other ways of discussing it & shouldn't do it when I'm stressed/under pressure but it arises when it arises & I wouldn't feel myself if I kept quiet.

OP posts:

AICM · 04/09/2021 07:15

You lost all rights to be listened to (and respected) with you God-awful 'men & their powerful penis' comment.

Any half decent man would have every right to be really irritated by that.

AICM · 04/09/2021 07:21

@sashh

Simple one.

Whenever he fills in an online form with options does he ever have to scroll down the list for his title?

They ALL start with 'Mr'

Why does he think that is? It's not because they are in alphabetical order or most common title.

Next one.

How many times has he thought about being raped and how to stop it?

Start simple and build up.

Mr is first because it's the most common title.

The intelligent way to list options is by putting the most common first then then going down the list in order of popularity.

buckeejit · 04/09/2021 07:48

@AICM so if it's not being a penis owner that gives them the entitlement to opt out of 'women's work', what is it?

OP posts:

rwalker · 04/09/2021 08:02

I'm male and my dad has dementia and immobile and incontinent . I have to do all personal care my sister won't even entertain it .

I have zero problem doing personal care for my dad but couldn't do it for my mum.

It has fuck all to do with privilege so I wouldn't be so quick to bang that drum

Also some people just couldn't do personal care full stop irrespective if they have a penis or not .

AICM · 04/09/2021 08:03

Why are you married?

ShadesOfMagenta · 04/09/2021 08:20

OP - rather than the privilege/equality type argument- how about taking the route of saying that women need liberation from male violence/oppression.

This recent article refuted the existence of systemic misandry www.google.co.uk/amp/s/victimfocusblog.com/2021/08/29/37-questions-to-prove-that-systemic-misandry-doesnt-exist-anywhere-in-the-world/amp/

Sparklyboots · 04/09/2021 08:23

I don't think anyone gets married to step in as personal care assistant for the family elders ACIM. Do men get married so someone else will empty their DM's catheter? I haven't been to many weddings lately, but I can't ever remember this being within the vows or legal provisions around marriage.

Your preacher brother sounds highly annoying, OP.

There is a book called The Gender Knot, it's by Allan Johnson. Therefore sexist blokes might be more likely to take it from (a) him. It may be a bit dated - I read it years ago. It's got an anecdote at the beginning of the book where he recounts working with mixed sex groups - I can't quite remember the details, but I bet the question/ exercise would be a potent one to do in a family meeting.

Naaaaah · 04/09/2021 08:36

@ChaneySays

Bet you wouldn't like it if he lectured you on the male suicide rate and how 99% of people who don't work and get bankrolled by a partner are female.

How many of those 'bankrolled' women are pregnant/sahm?

Naaaaah · 04/09/2021 08:37

How is Mr the most common title when there are more women than men?

AICM · 04/09/2021 08:45

Because women can be Mrs, Miss or Ms. All men are Mr.

Mr is the most common title.

AICM · 04/09/2021 09:04

@Sparklyboots

I don't think anyone gets married to step in as personal care assistant for the family elders ACIM. Do men get married so someone else will empty their DM's catheter? I haven't been to many weddings lately, but I can't ever remember this being within the vows or legal provisions around marriage.

Your preacher brother sounds highly annoying, OP.

There is a book called The Gender Knot, it's by Allan Johnson. Therefore sexist blokes might be more likely to take it from (a) him. It may be a bit dated - I read it years ago. It's got an anecdote at the beginning of the book where he recounts working with mixed sex groups - I can't quite remember the details, but I bet the question/ exercise would be a potent one to do in a family meeting.

My comment was aimed at the fact that the OP dislikes men.

rwalker · 04/09/2021 09:22

@buckeejit
Ugh, I just didn't want to accept the status quo as think it's shit of them & basically leaves me disadvantaged as I don't have a wife to contribute the help they're getting & I have dc to sort, they don't.

But you have a DH whats the difference does he not contribute and sort DC.
Presumed you wouldn't allow any male privilege in your house

buckeejit · 04/09/2021 10:34

@rwalker I'm sorry for what you have to go through with yourself & your dad. I get that some people don't want to do personal care but if there was nobody else doing it, I doubt they'd leave our mother who they love in a mess.

@AICM highlight light female oppression does not make me hate men. I have many men & women in my life that I love in spite of my perceived shortcomings.

@ShadesOfMagenta -thanks that looks interesting, I will have a read. Will also have a look at the gender knot. I think a man saying the same thing does hold more sway!

My dh does sort the dc-we have only 1 car which also leaves us in a bit more of a pickle logistically. Dh is with my parents now while I'm out for an hour. I dislike male/female privilege mostly as I want things to be different for my children. It is a complex issue & we al have ingrained ideas that are difficult to change. I'm trying & I want others to.

OP posts:

buckeejit · 04/09/2021 10:38

Also did say to the brothers that if it was our dad in this position, would they expect to be doing all the personal care & me stepping out of the room? They didn't answer.

They haven't requested female only carers for mum at any point so are either seemingly happy with other males doing the care or it has never crossed their minds that a man will have that sort of job. I think there are potential issues with both schools of thought but will leave it for now, as I've made my point with them & will focus on dm & giving her the best life & death we can manage bewteen us.

OP posts:

Naaaaah · 04/09/2021 11:07

@AICM

Because women can be Mrs, Miss or Ms. All men are Mr.

Mr is the most common title.

I understood that that's what you meant but if it goes by your logic, then it should still be female titles first.

AICM · 04/09/2021 11:50

Which female title is more common that Mr?

AICM · 04/09/2021 11:52

Highlighting g female oppression does not mean you dislike men.

Using the phrase 'penis power' however...

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Email address

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

topcat2014 · 04/09/2021 12:05

I would not do personal care for either parent unless in an emergency.

Fairly sure they wouldn't want it.

When the time comes, however, I will pay towards the cost.

I accept I am fortunate in that this will be an option for me.

ChaneySays · 04/09/2021 12:43

How many of those 'bankrolled' women are pregnant/sahm?

Lots were but now just live the easy life 'because hubby earns enough for me not to have to work'.

Plenty of threads on this before with posters saying how lucky they feel to be able to pursue their hobbies and see their friends in the day. Never see the reverse funnily enough.

ChaneySays · 04/09/2021 12:50

I mean why browbeat men for not being die hard feminists when less than 1 in 10 women are? I find most men to be pretty decent individuals and those that are arseholes aren't necessarily so just due to their sex.

I just find these discussions to usually be one sided. When it gets to things like the military draft in the US, women are suddenly overwhelmingly against equality for some reason. 🤔

Flip

1 2 3 4

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.