This fear that social services will come and take your children...

[willsurvivethis]

...it worries me!

There seem to be so many women out there who are afraid to seek help for depression and other problems out of fear that they will lose their children.

I have just asked MNHQ if they would consider doing something with this. Because surely if so many of us fear to lose our children something is going wrong somewhere! Surely we should all be albe to seek help with confidence?

What are your thoughts on this? I struggle with PTSD and even told my doctor that I tended to keep emotional distance from my ds when he's ill without even considering the possibility of that having repercussions.

[evanshayleyleanne]

I'm off now, but iwillsurvive, i think that your right and completely support taking this further. Regardless of how bad ss actually are, the perception that they are to be feared needs to be challenged and hopefully changed. People shouldn't be afraid(sorry to repeat myself) and the experience that many posters here have had is unacceptable. clearly something is wrong and it needs to be addressed.
I don't think that ss is a terrible system, i'm sure that many involved work very hard to help, but this fear and the stories and experiences that lead to it should be dispelled for the sake of the families that need support. Good luck.

[uglymugly]

By willsurvivethis Fri 29-Jan-10 21:01:25
If we're just going to scare each other now I'm going to ask mn to shut this thread down and remove it, maybe i should not have started it...I wanted to make it discussable not scare people

-

You can't scare people unless they think there's a reason for them feeling scared. What you've done is open up an area for discussion where people can relate their own experiences of fear. And you are not responsible for that by posting your concerns.

This is an area which needs to be aired, and mumsnet is good at that. Personally, I thank you for raising this topic. I first encountered this fear more than thirty years ago - my children are at the age where they might possibly have to deal with the same fear. It does have to stop. And we need to figure out how to do that.

[weegiemum]

Been reading this over again and am apalled at the number of people who have been bullied by SS.

I was bullied at school, but what I endured from the social worker in my CP case was a million times worse.

My best friend is a SW, who got out of CP work as she found it too distressing (now does CP training for teachers etc) but I find that now I am still a little scared to tell her (my bf for 20 years!!) how I am, just in case ......

There are too many power-hungry SW out there, (I have met them!!!) who like the idea of having power over families, being able to be in touch etc ....

I was villified from the moment dd2 was born. I had had to take some serious painkillers in pregnancy and was referred to the "addiction service" (sorry! I was taking prescribed morphine for my excruciatingly painful kidney stones! And its safer than all the other fancy meds out there!)

I looked at my notes while I was in hospital and found a section suggesting that I "wasn't bonding" with dd2 as I had not bathed her! (I had washed her all over many times but as I hadn't taken the stupid bath out of the cupboard I was "neglecting" her). I challenged the hospital on this and the were very but would not take it out of my notes.

So when, 13 months later, I suffered a rare and yet well known reaction to the antidepressants I had been on for years I was immediately referred to social services as there were "concerns" for my children.

At that point the sw were all very that I was still breastfeeding. I had to justify it in a meeting, I ended up bringing WHO guidelines etc (was a bfc trainee at the time) and they were still all . Cos I was bf a 14 months old baby! I was told by them I was "babying" her by "letting" her bf at that age! SHe was a baby, of course I was "babying" her.

They refused to listen to anything me, dh or our fabulous GP who advocated for us had to say. They had to stop after 3 meetings as there was clearly no cause for concern. But when the last meeting was finishing to hear the SW dept representative (not my SW, who was awful, but another one) say "well I still don't beleive any of this" was just a kick in the teeth.

We never got copies of the minutes of the meetings - my GP copied them for me as he was appalled by this as well. We were kept totally out of the loop. Our GP was invited to a meeting we weren't - he took us along (you should have seen their faces that day!!!!)

My kids are now a lot bigger (6, 8, 10) but I would still be very loathe to suggest that I sometimes don't cope too well (depression has relapsed). I refuse to see a psych after what happened the last time. I am glad I am out of the clutches of the HV service!

The SW service in this country needs a huge overhaul. I'd love to see MN do something.

What worries me the most I think is that while they were putting so much energy into our investigation which was pointless from the start, what was missed? Who was abusing their kids but we were all sat round a table discussing whether or not I should be "allowed" to continue bf my 14 mo dd2!!! (for the record, I did. Till she was 2!)

[nickname123]

weegiemum
it's insane how much ignorance there is around breastfeeding.
I absolutely plan on bf mine for a good 2 years, i remember when my 3 yr old was a year old a health visitor came into our home and was baffled i wasnt giving him cow's milk and said that i 'couldnt breastfeed him forever'. Well i breastfed him for over another year and am proud. Their attititudes are **ed up.

[willsurvivethis]

I have actually also noticed that many mums with depression and other mh conditions are such good long term bfeeders- probably because they care so much for their children. Yet at the same time they often think they're bad mums. I can't believe sw/hv discouraging bf so early!!!!!!!!!!Just read it from the below posts to dh who dropped his jaw and said 'but isnt's the WHO guideline 2 years?' - look he knows! FFS

[JollyPirate]

Sorry to asll of you who have had crap experiences - I don't disbelieve you BUT there is some utter crap being written here all the same.

SW do not have the power to remove children without a court order to do so. That court order will only be granted if there is some pretty convincing evidence that the child may be at risk if is not granted. The evidence comes from a variety of people and not just the social workers. It may include doctors, health visitor, psychologists, police etc etc etc.

I work with some really difficult families where neglect continues for a long period of time before enough evidence is there to enable a court to say that the children might be better off elsewhere while the parents work through whatever issues they have - and in some cases that will be never.
Over that period of time they remian in the home children suffer - end of story. In most cases the parents do work through whatever and the children are not removed.

Thank God I am not a SW given the crappy attitude they face on a day to day basis. No wonder they are in such short supply.

There is no conspiracy to remove pretty white babies. I work all the time with parents who have mental health problems, learning difficulties, drug and alcohol issues - in the vast majority of cases social services don't have enough resources to address the issues - the ones they do work with are those where so many referrals have come in fronm a variety of sources that they cannot ignore and HAVE to investigate.

So - if you have PND, depression or anything else get the treatment you need and talk about it. Unless there is something else going on that you are not being honest about that on it's own is not a good enough reason to remove a child from your care.

Threads like this can be good - too many women worry about SW or anyone else taking their children because they are depressed. I'm a HV and I can tell you it doesn't happen - not unless there are many many other issues. The one case I was involved in where it did happen was because the mother could not handle her baby, wanted the baby in respite every weekend, threatened to harm the child (on a regular basis) and just said she never ever developed any feelings. The baby was removed at HER request and subsequently adopted. As was the next one she had.... after 10 months of exactly the same pattern (should I mention that both babies were white, fair haired and pretty).

You are more likely to run the risk of SS getting involved if you DON'T seek help as then you depression may get worse and in severe cases lead to you neglecting yourself and the child.

[willsurvivethis]

Thanks for this JP - I think that wass a very necessary post!

[willsurvivethis]

Starlight maybe you need to clarify what you mean with asking for help. If you go to your GP and say you feel depressed isn't s/he much more likely to give you ads and refer you for counselling than to ring ss with concern that you're a bad mum?

[willsurvivethis]

Leonie there is a lot of self selection going on here - very few women would post and say gosh I felt so depressed and I just want to write how fantastic my gp/hv have been in supporting me or even I needed help from ss and thanks to their input my family is still together and doing much better.

The ones that post are the ones with the bad experiences. And while not accusing ANYONE of lying, this is th'Internet and we may not always get the full story.

[Reallytired]

I have sort help for depression/ anxiety with both my children from health visitors. With my son I was very ill, I stopped eating and got very skinny. No one ever suggested taking away my son. Health professionals worried about me NOT him. They knew that my son was very much loved.

With my daughter the health visitor has monitored me to try and spot problems before they happen. I have not been depressed but I have been scared of crowds and enclosed places. For example I find that going to the supermarket or the baby clinic terrifying.

I have found that health visitors have a very broad idea of what consitutes good parenting. My health visitor is not in the slightest bit bothered that I do not follow conventional parenting. I am planning to breastfeed until two and although we have a side cot my daughter often ends up co sleeping.

There is a difference between being MAD and being BAD. Many health visitors are a bit mad themselves, they know what its like.

[Nymphadora]

Think that is another issue -professionals using SS as a threat when actually SS wouldn't do anything. Lots of referrals that come in and dealt with in a quick phone call to referer and families or occaissionally a home visit.

Starlight- I think those things you listed would be minor but if you 'complied' then SW would assume you were following advice and would therefore follow advice on other stuff IYSWIM. Tbh if you were a family I worked with I would encourage regular meals/ bedtimes but as long as they were eating/ sleeping enough they wouldn't be an issue. The cradle cap & ironing wouldn't bother me.

Just to echo jolly care proceedings are very difficult and especially if it is classed as neglect as it is very difficult to prove. ( unless you have 4 kids & a dog sharing a room with no toilet facilities- one of the most disgusting cases I read about)

[TotalChaos]

bigmomma - I had a bad OCD relapse when I was PG, ended up referred to psych as GP was bloody useless. Noone referred me to SS. HV supposedly supporting me after the birth was a judgmental nightmare though (telling I wasn't an instinctive mother, how my mate visiting with her baby was doing stuff better then me) - but it took me a while to cotton on that she wanted me to kiss her arse - i.e. that she wasn't there for me to spill my innermost thoughts to, and to comply with all her suggestions and going to toddler groups and surestart was the way to get rid of her.

[strawberrykate]

I remember the booking forms at my GP, there was a tick box 'would you like a visit from a social worker' yes/no. I couldn't help thinking you'd have to be nuts or naive to tick that one!