Theatre mums - coping with rejection??

[CocoPlum]

DD(15) has fairly recently developed an interest in performing arts, so I’ve been doing what I
can to support this - singing lessons at school, a class in musical theatre. She wants to audition
for a local group’s musical next month, which I’m happy for her to do, but … it’s a really popular
group, a lot of the young people auditioning are well established within the group, and I know
around 18 girls are all going for one of the main roles alone - the total number in the cast is 30,
so there’s a lot of competition.
How do you deal with times when they are rejected, or your own feelings around that? I feel torn
between wanting to encourage and support her and also not wanting her to be involved in the
arts because of the risk of rejection. It’s also me that has to deal with the fall out if she does not
get cast. Her confidence is very much typical of a teenage girl so I don’t want her crushed! (I’m
well aware a lot of my own issues are at play here too, so please be kind!)

[TheTurn0fTheScrew]

My daughter isn't theatrical, but musical. Still, we have auditions to contend with. We go for the line that generally everyone who auditions is probably good enough, so other things come into play. Whether your chosen interpretation of a piece is similar to that of the panel's preference, how well they think you might gel with others already chosen, and whether the structure of the audition is a good fit for your strengths. Most of that lot is out of your control, which helps in not taking things personally.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

MT daughter now at Italia Conti we have had a lot of rejection along the way.
It is worth talking about casting type and that the director may be looking for a particular casting type. It doesn't mean you were bad just you weren't what they were looking for that time.
Knowing her casting type will help her to know what roles to go for.

[sunflowerdaisyrose]

My child is autistic - performing is her 'special interest' and dealing with rejection is the hardest part. She really feels the pain as she gets so excited about potential roles and works so hard for auditions.

We encourage her to accept ensemble parts as well as bigger ones and also talk about sometimes she's just not what they're looking for even if she does a good audition. Time is also a healer!

We also clearly manage expectations for the more popular auditions when she's unlikely to be cast (but still encourage).

[CatatonicLadybug]

I was a performer for a big part of my life and now my DS is - he is infinitely better with the rejection element and has such a better understanding of the broader picture than I ever did.

I always took the rejection personally and would walk away thinking I was terrible and needed to start from scratch and that it had nothing to do with anyone else in the room. This is total rubbish. A huge element of every audition is how you slot in to not only the director’s
vision, but that vision best fulfilled with the other people in the room. So what if you would be awesome as the big sister role if none of the boys auditioning work as your little brother? Or you’d make a great female lead but the guy they’ve cast as her love interest is a lot shorter than you? In real life, things like that are daft but on stage it’s all part of the deal. Those sorts of things are not your fault, not in your control, and you just gave to try another day.

He sees it as there are things he can control: learning to be the best performer he can be (things like his vocal technique, building dance skills, picking up scripts fast), his behaviour in the audition, his attitude toward whatever happens along the way. Also keeping things in line at school so neither teachers nor mother say he has to cut back on performing because school is suffering. And everything else is completely out of his control. So he tries to guess with rejection if there is anything from the list of stuff he can control that he should focus on toward next time and shake the rest off. It’s stuff he can’t control.

I never had that mindset, even in my twenties, and I think it is so much healthier! Lets him focus on getting better and better without developing some sort of chip on his shoulder about not getting a part. He also seems to really shift from rejection to looking forward to the next opportunity, which is way more proactive than dwelling on what’s already done.

I agree with PP on accepting ensemble parts. They really are still rewarding and if you hold a grudge against the person who got the part instead of you, that’s not at all helpful and will be seen and remembered by others. Attitude is something you can control, so remember that old chestnut about ‘no small parts, only small actors’ and remember the show falls over without the ensemble. Every part is important or it wouldn’t be there!

If all else fails, set a timer. I would allow myself seven minutes to crank up the emotional music and react in whatever full force way was sitting inside me, and then I had to accept it and move on. It took some practice but it did help me with perspective. I think all the mindset stuff above is way healthier though, and only mention this as a last resort as it’s not meant to just be a cover for bottling up big feelings long term. :) It can help get through the day rather than the lifetime!

All the best to your daughter!

[CocoPlum]

Thank you all so much. She is working on her audition piece with her singing teacher, I'm sending her videos of other people performing it and getting her to talk about the interpretation of the words so I know she understands what she wants to convey. She would also be thrilled with an ensemble part.

These are some really helpful things for her to think about. Part of it is that I am still terrified of rejection and see it as really not being good enough, I worry so much about her self esteem as we are very alike and mine is terrible!

[OhCrumbsWhereNow]

Unfortunately 99% of performing arts is rejection so developing a thick skin and resilience is really important.

DD got to final rounds in the West End more times than I have fingers and actually cast a lot less than the fingers on 1 hand.

There were a couple of roles she badly wanted and after days and days of auditions was very invested. To give an idea of the competition levels, for Matilda (role of) they normally see around 800 girls a season, for Jane Banks it's around 1,100. So to get down to the bitter end is a slog.

We had an agreement that she was allowed to be sad, throw a full on Verruca Salt tantrum on the floor and cry for one evening, then she had to move on.

Film/TV is even more demoralising as you don't even get a no, you just never hear!

In many ways it's harder being the parent. I've done the 'it's not faaaaiiiirrrr' whinge many times. DD is far more grown up about it.

Generally for something that involved significant work it always earned a reward - something she'd wanted from the toy shop, or bath bombs or whatever, and a big 'not good for the voice' ice-cream.

I was pretty careful not to moan in front of her and was v strict about the 'one evening' rule. She wants a career in this world and that won't happen if she falls apart every time her face doesn't fit. Luckily she adores auditions so I can sell that to her as her chance to be the role and perform it.

Good luck to your DD!

[fiddlesticksandotherwords]

@CocoPlum You say it is a local group - what sort of group is it? Is it a one-off amateur production in association with a local theatre, or a performing arts group that meets weekly? If it is anything like my local theatre's panto auditions, they will choose the cast based on the quantity and sizes of their stock of costumes.

How tall is she? That often makes a difference and at her age it helps if she can play 'younger' than she is, rather than look like a young adult but not have the experience to hold her own against older teenagers.

Let her go for it, but do explain that they will probably go for experienced performers who they have already worked with, and to treat it as a learning experience so she will know what to expect the next time. That way you aren't building her hopes up, and if she does get a part, even in the ensemble, it will be a bonus.

[horseymum]

My DD does music auditions, she has learned to see them as experience, meaning you know what to expect the next time. Also understanding that you can be of the standard but not get picked because others had something extra on the day. Hope she enjoys the experience and gets to take part even if not her favourite part.

[qazxc]

I work in the arts and theatre. Out local art centre runs youth theatre terms with showcases/ shows several times a year. There are no auditions.
The theatre company I work for now is a community led organisation. Participants work with professional artists, directors, etc... to build a project from start to finish. So they would essentially write their own part. Again no auditions.
Would any of these options be available locally to you. They allow a performer to work on their skills without having to deal with the audition/ rejection aspect.

[CocoPlum]

@fiddlesticksandotherwords it's a youth performing arts group that meets weekly, she falls exactly in the middle age wise, pretty average teen height.

@qazxc the group she is part of also do end of year small showcase type productions so she has had chances to perform in other ways! But there is also usually a more selective production or two each year.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow and @horseymum thank you both for the perspective shifts. I like the idea of rewarding her in some way for working towards the audition. It's hard not to feel invested when there's quite a lot of time to prepare!

[CatatonicLadybug]

@OhCrumbsWhereNow makes an excellent point I had never seen until I was a parent: the mindset of liking auditions. I was somehow brought up with the idea that because it’s a bit of a competition really, everyone else there is… not your friend. When I was away from it all, I realised this was maybe not so healthy, so I tried not to give that idea to DS and let him make up his own mind.

DS actually loves auditions because ‘everyone there loves the same stuff I do, and chances are they are good at it too’.

I honestly never thought of it that way and I absolutely love it. He’s right. They might all be trying for the same part, but take that away and they are with their people. Everyone in there is not the enemy. They might not be a bestie today but one day they might. The first time he explained it to me, I wished I had that perspective a lifetime ago.

(I also love the not-good-for-the-voice ice cream, as we do the you-might-break-something trampoline park with the same thought process!)

[fiddlesticksandotherwords]

So if it is a weekly group, do they meet every week, or is it just for shows and they meet every week for the rehearsals? Is the audition just for the production they are putting on, or is it for joining the group itself? If she's not already a weekly attendee, they are more likely to give main roles to the regulars, I would have thought.

[CocoPlum]

@fiddlesticksandotherwords she attends weekly, but as she only discovered her interest recently she's only been going since the beginning of the year. Audition is for a production, but you don't have to attend the weekly group to try out, so a lot of the older children from the show they did earlier this year (auditions for this before DD was interested!) don't attend the weekly.

@CatatonicLadybug she did an audition workshop last term for a show which she didn't get, and had a fab time! Made a new friend, and used it as a way to chat to someone new at her group last week. If it was me, I'd be too mortified at not getting a part to speak to anyone who did! (Which obviously says a lot about my own insecurities!) So I feel like she's already getting something from them but I'll keep that framing in mind as well.

[fiddlesticksandotherwords]

In that case, she's very likely to be cast in the production, but more likely ensemble and not necessarily in the role she wants. All experiences of auditions and performing can be positive and learned from if taken at face value. Groups like that often have understudies for all the main roles, and/or two different casts.

Does the production contain much in the way of dance? If so, then that will have a bearing on who gets cast for what as well.

[OhCrumbsWhereNow]

@CatatonicLadybug

@OhCrumbsWhereNow makes an excellent point I had never seen until I was a parent: the mindset of liking auditions. I was somehow brought up with the idea that because it’s a bit of a competition really, everyone else there is… not your friend. When I was away from it all, I realised this was maybe not so healthy, so I tried not to give that idea to DS and let him make up his own mind.

DS actually loves auditions because ‘everyone there loves the same stuff I do, and chances are they are good at it too’.

I honestly never thought of it that way and I absolutely love it. He’s right. They might all be trying for the same part, but take that away and they are with their people. Everyone in there is not the enemy. They might not be a bestie today but one day they might. The first time he explained it to me, I wished I had that perspective a lifetime ago.

(I also love the not-good-for-the-voice ice cream, as we do the you-might-break-something trampoline park with the same thought process!)

If you are doing this in a serious manner (ie future career in mind not just for a bit of fun for a year or so) then it's really vital to have your friends in the industry.

We were out last night to watch DD's bestie - who she first met in an audition room almost 8 years ago. I can't count how many times they have been in auditions together for the same role... something that is very likely to carry on for many years to come.

Nobody else understands the highs and lows like another child (or parent) in the same industry. Plus your kids are probably training together anyway.

There are so many different factors in who actually gets cast in the role that there is zero point in seeing anyone else there as 'competition' or being secretive or trying to psych people out etc.

I've seen it happen multiple times in the West End where they will see 1,000 girls for a role, get right down to final 4 - then cast nobody and start all over again. Even when you are cast, nothing is definite until you set foot on stage on opening night.

None of DD's world is my cup of tea at all - but I've met some amazing friends along the way.

[MiniBossFromAus]

Honestly - learning how to deal with disappointment and facing things head on is one of the best / hardest things my children have had to learn.

My oldest - was not selected more times than they have had hot meals. He is bloody strong and quite cynical for it. He chose to study in a world class conservatoire and knew there was always going to be somebody that was "better".

Agree with a pp - I think it is almost more painful as a parent to feel their disappointment. All you can do is be there. Trying to shield them won't make a jot of difference.

[Vladandnikki]

Have always told DD that you learn far more from rejection than you would never being told no. And she has really come into her own the past year, she always has a back up plan so if she doesn't get a part she can still be involved in production, costume design, tech, stage management and is really developing a love and understanding for all things theatre, not just performance which means she never feels left out. In the words of Chilli Heeler "she has a little cry, dusts herself off and gets back up again"

[CocoPlum]

This is all really helpful and makes me feel positive that if she doesn't get a part she'll cope!

@OhCrumbsWhereNow even if she/new friends she makes there don't end up going into the industry, I'm glad she's getting out there meeting people, developing friendships outside of school which I think is so important, and it will increase her confidence when it comes to starting 6th form/University/new jobs where she may not know anyone! Your insight on west end casting is fascinating!

@fiddlesticksandotherwords no dance. Ensemble would be amazing and that's what we've put on the form.

@MiniBossFromAus I hate their pain! I almost don't want her to even try because I don't want her to even risk it!

@Vladandnikki more on my own issues, I used to do backstage for a theatre group because I didn't make it through the first audition, I always felt second best to the cast!

[Lonecatwithkitten]

@CocoPlum there is a lot to be learnt from being ensemble - learning how to blend your voice with others, learning how to act and dance as a group and learning how to be professional. DD spent many productions being ensemble learning the essential skills needed to be a good performer.
As an adult in west end productions often ensemble members who have additional roles such as dance captain or swings earn more than the main roles.

[CocoPlum]

So an update. Audition happened. They did a randomiser to decide who would sing and she was the very first which she did NOT want. And although she hit her notes her voice cracked on a couple of them. Gutted for her. Had bad news myself today so I'm pretty down. 😔

[AppleKatie]

Well done her for getting through it.

its not over til it’s over. If she’s a regular attender I bet she gets an ensemble part.

[CocoPlum]

Thanks @AppleKatie. There are probably over 100 people auditioning for about 30 parts though. And quite a few of the older ones are no longer attendees but still audition and there are a LOT of 15ish yo girls .. I think it might just be a way of filtering out!

[AppleKatie]

Does her weekly class continue even if she doesn’t make the show?

If it does that does reduce the likelihood of her getting in but sell it as an opportunity to learn loads before the next round of auditions.

[CocoPlum]

Hopefully it will continue. It didn't this term but she did have a part in the play that was rehearsing then.

I just don't like that I get the emails about the casting and have to do the telling-her-news!

[fiddlesticksandotherwords]

If it's bad news, just remind her that it is only one person's opinion on one day, and they also have to bear in mind that they are casting a production. They will have a stock of costumes to fill and need a certain number of people, and will probably have a specific 'look' or singing voice / dance ability in mind for the main parts. If she doesn't get in, it's because she wasn't right for the role, not because she wasn't good enough.

This is, unfortunately, what performing arts is like.