Do we continue with piano or not? In two minds and feeling upset

[Bubblyb00b]

Hi, I really need advice from somebody in the know. I'm feeling a bit stuck with this situation.

My DS10 has been having weekly piano lessons for over two years now. He absolutely loves the lessons, he and his teacher have a lot of fun, improvising and learning to play. He seem to be doing well in the lessons (though he can be distracted and unfocused); his teacher says he has perfect hearing and has talent for improvisation. I also have a drum kit so they sometimes play together. DS can easily knock out a tune with just one finger - he even wrote a song himself. This is the good part.

The bad part is - he refuses to practice on his own, every practice is a struggle, and the progress is incredibly slow. I even had to learn his pieces myself to help him (I have a very limited knowledge of piano, more of this later); but practicing is still a nightmare, tears, bargaining, "I already done it" etc. In over two years, he only got Initial Grade , and even that was with the lowest score possible. I know the other kid who started at the same time is him and she is now getting ready for Grade 2. He on the other hand can barely play, doesn't hold his hands right, slouches, bangs the keys, and generally seems uninterested in being proactive- but says he loves the piano. When I suggest we stop the lessons, he gets very, very upset, starts crying and saying he loves music, loves piano, but hates practicing on his own. And that his teacher is saying he is good, so he must be good. But the reality is - after 2 years or lessons and a huge heap of money we have very little to show for it!!!

I would readily give up and pack this in - but the problem is, I was exactly the same at his age, and my parents stopped my piano when I was around 11. And I regretted it ever since, and blamed them for not forcing me to continue!! I have no idea what to do. I feel sad stopping it, but maybe I should for now and start again if he wants it? Or should I persevere? Or change the teacher, find a more strict one? I want him to be able to play and to make use of his creativity but this situation makes me feel like a failure compared to other mum whos' kid practices every morning before school and even plays in school band.

Any advice would be welcome...

[bilbodog]

I would say if he is enjoying the lessons to keep going - if the teacher is ok with this.

I got up to grade 5 when i was 14 but got bored - the music they make you play to pass the grades is so dull - if my teacher had got me playing music that was more interesting to me i might have continued.

I'm playing again now, 50 years later! If his teacher doesnt want to keep him on see if there is anyone out there who could get his interest going with more interesting stuff.

[UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername]

Does he know how to practice - what to do, in what order, how to know if something's okay or needs extra work, what to do about harder bits? Can you practice with him? It worked for me as a kid, and for DS now too.

[tothesea]

Does he have to do the grades? Can he not just go to the lessons for pleasure? He sounds creative and like he has a good ear. He might get on better without the pressure of grades. My own DS does the bare minimum practice and needs nagged to do it. But will play about with his own tunes for hours. He has lessons but no grades.

[Thingamebobwotsit]

If he enjoys the lessons and wants to keep going, I would let him and worry less about the exams and practice. Let him just enjoy music for what it is. My DM pushed me incredibly hard at music and as a consequence I gave up at 18 and with 2 x grade 8's, and several other instruments I picked up for "fun" behind me. Sometimes I wonder if I wasted a talent but the truth is I hate playing now. Love listening to music but any enjoyment I had in actually picking up an instrument was drummed out of me.

DCs now learning but I absolutely refuse to push them. Music is something to be enjoyed, not forced.

[Bubblyb00b]

Thanks everyone, I understand that he can enjoy the lessons without doing the grades but I'm more upset at the lack of progress. is this normal? will he get to the point when everyhting "falls into place" and he will start actually playing? This is what bothers me. I worked out I spent about 3k on lessons already and seems like we have nothing to show for it... I'm ok with paying for something my DS will benefit from, but at the moment it kind of seems I'm just throwing money away?

His teacher seems to like him, and he suggested we do "rock school piano" for his next grade, DS loves a bit of Elton John ))

[Bubblyb00b]

@Thingamebobwotsit this is very sad! My parents were strict but then gave up as I hated practicing so much. I sometimes dream of playing but I have zero time to learn now (single mum working full time), but I keep promising myself I will at some point.

I never push him, and sometimes feel like I maybe should but as you said, I would hate it to become a dreaded chore.

[Clarachuff]

Truth is..he wont make progress unless he is willing to practice. I would stop paying for lessons...he can play about on his own all he wants.

[StillWantingADog]

If he enjoys the lessons I would persevere for now but have a chat with the teacher and ask how (s)he feels he’s progressing.
my son is a similar age and has been learning seriously for about 2 years but on and off for 4-5. We’re now heading towards grade two which feels quite slow to me. I get the difficulty in making them practice. Mine will but has to be persuaded - it’s quite a lot of effort on my part! I think that’s normal. But if he won’t practice at all between lessons then there’s no wonder there’s little progress.

sounds like your ds could be one that progresses by improvising and by ear rather than by learning music the traditional way.

[Crumbcatcher]

I'd do a reward chart for 10 mins practice a day. (Or on the days he doesn't have other activities). I think it's okay for it to be a chore and for him to learn that it's both expected and how to improve.

If his teacher doesn't specify what to practice I'd provide a notebook and ask for a couple of items to be given (scales and a piece?).

[Singleandproud]

He is getting other things out of the lessons though, interacting with a different adult etc.

If he doesn't like practising alone have you tried apps like Simply piano to run alongside his lessons, they are fun and build up the skills slowly but with a massive range of music to play from tradional pieces to Disney, musical theatre, pop music etc. You could also learn with him, modelling practising for half an hour a day and build in some friendly competition between the two of you.

[Fairymother]

My DD is exactly the same as your DS, except she is 7 and has been playing about a year. So im giving her the baby bonus 😃
She says she would play piano every day if she had lessons every day, but alone (or with me/DH) she doesnt want to practise 🤷🏻‍♀️

We are continuing for now because i hope it gets better as she gets older. But im not sure what I will do if shes the same in a year or 2.

[StephanieSuperpowers]

Presumably he has a few weeks off now. You could try downloading an app like simply piano to get him to practise on more modern songs and see if he's more motivated with different materials? If he is, you could chat to his teacher about changing focus from grades to just playing. It might help.

[RedBonnet]

Agree with op who said play tunes he likes. Maybe get sheet music of his favourite bands? Also get him into a routine. 15mins practice before playtime (footie with pals, tv, games whatever). Slowly build up to 45mins even if there's a 10min break in between.

Learning anything is 10% talent 90% practice. It's a discipline like anything else. Practice brings muscle memory. Forget exams for now.

Explain clearly if he doesn't practice the lessons will end. Give him a deadline and stick to your guns.

You could make him pay for his own lessons. He could earn the money by practicing.

Currently going through this with my gd but she's only just started lessons

[ManyATrueWord]

Grade grubbing in music is what puts more children off than anything. My child loves music and is not inspired to take grades. So no grades here. Musicality is growing. Singing ability is growing. Rhythm and pitch are getting better. If she ever wants to take a graded exams she can. Just let the children learn. Intrinsic motivation will come.

[user50316]

I never practiced piano and only did grades to grade 1. I just played for pleasure which when you're at school is a really nice hobby imho. Can you find another teacher who just teaches songs and doesn't do grades?

[Bubblyb00b]

Thanks. I already gave him anu ultimatum, see what comes out of it. I think paying £35/ hour for him to just have fun with a teacher without learning much is not the way forward. I probably will stop the lessons after this term.

He already has a reward system and he is learning (well, more like murdering) something he picked himself, a few tunes he said he likes. I got to the point where I actually play these tunes better than him by just trying to get him to learn. Quite pathetic!

[TheMousePipes]

Routine routine routine. 5 minutes practice a day. Nothing more, nothing less - Every day you’re at home. You can increase the amount of time when you think he’s ready. Leave the piano lid up, book on stand open and ready.
Sit with him for the first week or so and praise his work ethic, never mind the actual playing to start with, just the willingness to sit down and have a go.

The difference in progress between my students that practice and those that ‘don’t have time’ is vast.

[escript]

Just one lesson a week I would continue if he's keen to do that.

I had issues with a DC not doing any extra work outside of lessons and private lessons (it costs in the hundreds per month). I always offered them the option to scale back the lessons to one or two a week, or drop the hobby if they were no longer finding it enjoyable.

[escript]

The difference in progress between my students that practice and those that ‘don’t have time’ is vast.

Absolutely agree!

[StillWantingADog]

@user50316

I never practiced piano and only did grades to grade 1. I just played for pleasure which when you're at school is a really nice hobby imho. Can you find another teacher who just teaches songs and doesn't do grades?

pieces not songs!
songs are sung, pieces are played.

but anyway while I agree exams /grades aren’t the be all and end all, it makes no difference - if he doesn’t practice, he won’t progress.

[arghtriffid]

My DS started a year ago and is working at grade 2, he has a half hour lesson a week. He practises most days with no prompting for at 20 - 30 mins. He plays well with go posture, rhythmn etc

I would not push him, infact when my son didn't practise for a few weeks, I started telling him he needed to ect and it actually made him enjoy it less so I am now keeping out of it.

[midgetastic]

Are there any groups he can join to get more playing time

Leave the exams out of things - it's one way to measure progress but to me music should be enjoyment not another thing you have to measure up to

[Winter2020]

Hi,
My son is 14 in Oct. He started out with simply piano (at around 8) and I really recommend it. Your son could do it alongside lessons. At the time the app for a year was around £80 and I figured although that is a lot of money it wouldn't pay for many piano lessons. It's great and the kids start playing along with backing tracks so from day 1, even if they only play 2 or 3 notes they can sound really good and be motivated by that. My son even entered a holiday club talent show playing "don't stop me now" on a keyboard with the sheet music scrolling on his ipad on simply piano! I think you can do a free trial or pay for 1 month to see if it's useful.

My son started formal lessons at 10 and was nearly ready for grade 1 with the skills he learned from simply piano when he started and was still enjoying simply piano alongside his lessons.

I agree with the sentiment that gradings are only one part of learning to play and can be the more dry boring part at lower grades so I would say other music is your lifeblood and motivation, and grades and grading pieces simply a way of measuring progress and when older/higher grades proving progress for orchestras/ uni etc.

My main piece of advice above all else (and you may already do it) is have your instrument all set up in the main living area - whether keyboard/electric piano or piano it doesn't matter at this point. Although a keyboard/electric piano allows the volume turning down of course fir unsociable hours or headphones when others are watching something etc.

It needs to be there, in sight where you are hanging out and where your child can feel his playing is heard and appreciated. Music is an enormous part of my child's life now but I honestly feel if his instrument was in his room and I had to send him upstairs saying "go practice" he would never have got off the starting blocks. (I appreciate some children perhaps older may like hanging out alone in their room but not something my son has ever done.) The usual drill when my son was younger was "right your xbox has been on for hours (also on our main tele) switch it off and do some piano". We only ever aimed for 10/20 minutes and I didn't care what he played if he was playing - unless practicing for a grading soon. I'd say he practiced 4 or 5 times a week and that's fine. If we were out for a long day I wouldn't expect a tired child to get in and practice.

I don't think having to remind/nag and the odd threat that "lessons will stop if no practice" when young means your child won't be motivated/talented when older. Like lots of kids nagged to do homework will go on to be academic.

Of course there is the possibility that this won't be the right hobby fir your son but the fact that he enjoys his lessons I would try to see if you can make practice that bit more accessible and enjoyable before throwing in the towel. I feel absolutely privileged to listen to my son practicing/play now on his own or with his bands/friends. Every nag or TV show I had to miss was worth it!

Good luck!

[Bubblyb00b]

@Winter2020 thanks for this. All DS's instruments (piano and drum kit) are set up in the main living area... we tried simply piano but he got bored with it quickly. He enjoys interacting with his teacher but not interested/ motivated enough to do it by himself. And I know he can be motivated and proactive in learning what he is very interested in (video editing, etc).
I absolutely gave him an ultimatum, he has until the end of the school year - either he shows me he is interested, or we quit! But even if we stop the lessons I will keep the piano so the option will be there.

[Bunnycat101]

The rock school syllabus sounds like a good recommendation and maybe more enjoyable. I do think piano takes ages to get to a reasonable point. I’m re-learning with my 7yo and we’re looking at g1 pieces at the moment and both finding them a fair step up from the beginner method books. We do tend to practice most days and she’s got into a good routine. I’d rather have 5 minutes from her each day than a longer session once a week. As she’s got a bit better her enjoyment has clearly grown and but I do think you’ve got to put in the work as piano just seems so hard when starting out compared to many other instruments. It feels like the effort to get from beginner to g1 is much greater than g1 to g2.