What are Remainers ( the type that post on this board regularly ) going to do once the tories win the GE?

[surferjet]

Because they are going to smash it, landslide victory, & all of that.
The libdems will crawl back under their stones, Labour will implode, & TM will get on with Brexit without annoying interference from people trying to stop it.
What are you going to do?
Carry on getting angry online?
Carry on demanding answers from internet strangers?
When will you just get on with your lives basically.

[squishysquirmy]

"Less than 8% of EU migrants to the UK settle in Scotland. Would Sturgeon have such a Pro-Remain stance if the spread of EU immigration were more even across England and Scotland?"

...The population of Scotland is about 8% of the UK, isn't it? Which makes that figure you quoted (don't know where you got it from) sound not too bad. Especially when you consider that 37% of all those living within the UK who were born outside the UK live in London, which will pull up the average for England as a whole considerably.

I am a remainer who has never suggested that all leavers are racists, by the way. I have, however, called out individual leavers for making specific statements which I consider to be racist. I don't know whether May is racist or not - I think that she probably isn't, but that's not enough to make me trust her. She is happy to stir up divisions when it benefits her. Being concerned about uncontrolled immigration does not make someone racist. Expressing those concerns in racist terms, or willfully spreading misconceptions and half truths about particular races does. I also think that cynically exploiting genuine concerns about immigration as a dog whistle makes someone a really shitty person, racist or not.


This is where I got my figures from, by the way. In case you were worrying I pulled them out of thin air:
www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwiahMvOnoHUAhXFKsAKHW8-Ao8QFggvMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearchbriefings.files.parliament.uk%2Fdocuments%2FSN06077%2FSN06077.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFeJE7JfVT0XWoKu18sgjBDtVSPSA&sig2=zssawR_dutr-LoNQ6cHK3Q

[usernamealreadytaken]

Squishy your link is broken, and not sure what Scotland's percentage of population has to do with immigration figures. This is from a parliament briefing paper issued in 2015

EU membership has also led to changes in Scotland’s population due to freedom of movement. In the period from when the UK joined the EU in 1973 until 2003, the Scottish population either saw minimal growth or decreased. The average change over the period was a population reduction of 0.1% per year. From 2004 when the European Union expanded with the accession of eight central and eastern European countries and Malta and Cyprus, the Scottish population has increased by at least 0.3% a year. The latest estimates suggest that in 2014 there were around 173,000 people in Scotland who had the nationality of another EU member state, equating to 3.3% of the overall population. When compared to the UK, Scotland’s population includes proportionally fewer EU nationals than the UK as a whole, where the figure is 4.6%.

So Scotland has over a quarter fewer EU immigrants than the UK as a whole - that's approximately 75000 people if the percentages were even. I would assume that most immigrants would not wish to settle in the remote towns and villages that have seen their populations decline as younger citizens move away to find work, but instead would gravitate towards the bigger cities. Given that the population of Glasgow is around 600,000 and Edinburgh around 500,000, that would be an enormous amount of additional people to accommodate in either city.

[lonelyplanetmum]

She is happy to stir up divisions when it benefits her.

 Yes exactly.

I wonder if saying Treeza appears xenophobic (rather than racist) would lead to more consensus ?

There is a curious mismatch between the proper research and reports she must have read and what she then says.

example: In 2014/5 her own researchers reported there was:
"relatively little evidence that migration has caused significant displacement of UK born nationals from the labour market"  (Referring to periods when the economy is strong which it was, at least before the referendum.)

Yet having commissioned that research, in October 2015 at the Tory party conference Treeza said levels of immigration made it “impossible to build a cohesive society”. She said immigration forced wages down, while some people are forced out of work altogether.

She must know that her departments,and other research finds repeatedly that:

"There is little effect of EU immigration on inequality through reducing the pay and jobs of less skilled UK workers. Changes in wages and joblessness for less educated UK- born workers show little correlation with changes in EU immigration.EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they take out in welfare and the use of public services. They therefore help reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as crime, education, health, or social housing."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/287287/occ109.pdff_
http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit05.pdff_

So as  Treeza says the opposite of the research and stirs up division,either she:
1.ignores her own briefings and similar research; or 
2.agrees with xenophobes in her party; or 
3.assumes the electorate are xenophobic and panders to that for political gain.

As we are going back in time to (hugely expensive) new grammar schools perhaps old fashioned teaching methods will come back too. I will do a detention and write lines:

I must stop referring to research and experts.
I must stop referring to research and experts.
I must stop referring to research and experts.

[squishysquirmy]

I mentioned it, because optional's assertion that "less than 8% of EU migrants to the UK settle in Scotland" sounds tiny, if you are not aware of the relative size of Scotland's population compared to the UK as a whole. Which a lot of people aren't.

Migration into Scotland, relative to its size, is still smaller than that of the UK as a whole, but its not that big a difference, and I don't think it is a big enough difference to drastically change Sturgeon's attitude to immigration, which optional was insinuating.
And the proportion of migrants settled within the rest of the UK would look a lot smaller if you excluded London, which drags up the average %.

Sorry the link doesn't work - its a pdf, so hard to link to. I can't make sense of your numbers and maths, either.
And the population of the greater Glasgow area is closer to 1.2 million. Glasgow city council area is only about 600,000, but as I am sure you are aware all modern cities tend to sprawl outside their original boundaries!

[squishysquirmy]

Whoops: depending on where you defined the boundaries, the population of the glasgow city region could be even higher: The EU thinks it is:
The European Union's statistical body Eurostat lists Glasgow as the 32nd most populous metropolitan area, or Larger Urban Zones, in the EU. Although not defining the boundaries of this metropolitan area, Eurostat state it consists "of over 1.7 million inhabitants covering an area of 3,346 km2"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Glasgow
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow

And if this doesn't seem relevant, I am only mentioning it because you asserted that Glasgow couldn't cope with much immigration, because the population was only 600,000. Have you ever been there? Glasgow is MASSIVE! And has a large immigrant population.

[optionalrationale]

I asked ONE pp if he /she was French based on a comment he/she had made. I asked a question of one individual. It's completely wrong to say I cast aspersions on a whole country

[MsHooliesCardigan]

optipnal MNHQ obviously disagreed.

[time4chocolate]

Just popping in to give these & to optional

[borntobequiet]

The population of Scotland is about 8% of the population of the UK as a whole so around 8% of EU immigrants going there sounds about right, in fact more than I would have expected given fewer big cities.

[optionalrationale]

Correction to figures I mentioned earlier Scotland has 8.4% of the total UK population but only 4% of EU migrants to the UK choose to settle there.

Would the Remain vote in Scotland have been as strong if the pressure of EU migrants had been as acute as it is in many cities and towns in England?

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ruth-davidson-migrants-put-off-scotland-by-higher-taxes-1-4441284

[optionalrationale]

Today 18:43 MsHooliesCardigan
MNHQ obviously disagreed

That's my point, "freedom of speech" is applied very selectively. The Remain camp get to call whomever they want Racist - even if it is an "opinion" with no evidence to back it up.

[borntobequiet]

Oops cross posted, sorry Squishy.

[sunnydalegottobedone]

I am the only one bored of Optimal. You won, get over it. The only thing you are succeeding in now is making me want to reverse my stance of let's get on and move forward. Instead I'm now highly irritated by your blanket insinuations and insults against those who voted remain.

Anyone fancy going dibs on a billboard or two, massive European Flags saying "let go back in". I'm thinking a sign a two on the M25. Some banners, a few fog horns. By line will read inspired by Optimal.

[Peregrina]

I am the only one bored of Optimal. You won, get over it.

No, I am too. And when she/he can't come up with a sensible answer, makes silly jibes.

It is possible for Leavers to make sensible points - e.g. Richard North has provided some very pertinent commentary since the Referendum vote. One or two Leavers on these threads have also tried, although they seem to have gone a bit quiet of late.

[frumpety]

Just a quick question Optional , since when has the UK had uncontrolled immigration ?

[sunnydalegottobedone]

Oops just re read my post - it should read "Am I the only one bored..." Not I am the only one bored I have a seen a fair few on here cringing and bored of Optional from all sides.

[MsHooliesCardigan]

sunny I knew what you meant. It is getting a bit tedious. I remember being 13 and sitting down with my very patient dad and just going out of my way to try and start an argument with him. How he never rose to the bait, I'll never know.

[optionalrationale]

Today 19:27 frumpety
Just a quick question Optional , since when has the UK had uncontrolled immigration

Freedom of movement...the point is that 96% of EU migrants settle in England and Wales. Only 4% in Scotland.

[optionalrationale]

No one forcing you to read or comment. If you're bored, do something else.

[Peregrina]

Notice how OR doesn't answer questions.

[sunnydalegottobedone]

optional why don't you go do something else. Instead of ranting & spouting...... You are not influencing anyone, just irritating and playing to a stereotype that I believe you are trying to dispel. and yes you are boring. Really really boring. Go on quote that with the time stamp!

[optionalrationale]

Peregrina Ask me a question and I'll answer it.
Sunnydale - Why don't you?

[optionalrationale]

Differences in EU migration to Scotland vs England...possible impact on support for EU membership...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25910947

Robert Wright, professor of economics at the University of Strathclyde, says Scotland has not really been tested with mass immigration.
He says: "I think the difference between Scotland and the UK really boils down to the fact there has been less immigration in Scotland than the UK for a significant period of time.

"So the fact I think there is more tolerance here is because there has been less of it. That does not mean there will be tolerance in the future when there is more immigration, so this will be a hurdle we have to jump later

[Peregrina]

Robert Wright, professor of economics at the University of Strathclyde, says Scotland has not really been tested with mass immigration.

But the places in England which object most strongly to immigration are the places which don't have many, so it could be said that they haven't been tested either.

London does have a lot, and London voted Remain.

[sunnydalegottobedone]

Just because m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmkySNDX4dU