Yes/no poll on religion in state schools.

[seeker]

Do you think state schools should be secular, but with RE lessons giving information about all the main world religions as part of the curriculum?

[AramintaCane]

Doobydoo that is terrble

[Doobydoo]

It is a Church of England School.
Interesting Smithagain,obviously depends on how strongly people feel about it,or is it to do with area?I don't know.

[GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob]

Teaching children that Creationism is something people believe/used ot believe, or teaching Creationism to children as the truth?

[Doobydoo]

It is terrible.They make a huge deal of children's contracts and being kind,tolerant etc but I really do not see it.

[ByTheSea]

Yes, they should be secular!

[Doobydoo]

Good question Greensleeves.Idp and I asked if the teacher was explaining all religions etc as they touched on Islam last term...we took it as the latter but need to clarify.I really hope it is the latter!

[Smithagain]

"Interesting Smithagain,obviously depends on how strongly people feel about it,or is it to do with area?I don't know."

I guess it's to do with theology. Some hard line evangelical churches still go for the literal, created-in-seven-days version of events, but the majority of more moderate churches accept that evolution is pretty well established, while maintaining a belief that God is, in some way, behind the whole thing.

I don't know many Christians who really think that he spent six days on it, then put his feet up.

[Grandhighpoohba]

Yes should be secular! I remember being upset as a child at the suggestion that my (athiest)parents were going to burn in hell.

Don't want my son to be told he is a christian when he is not! He is a small child! He can choose to be any religion he likes when he is older but I am furious at the suggestion that his school can dictate his beliefs at a young age.

[teamcullen]

If faith schools in this country were not predominatly christian, the majority of this thread would be classed as being rasist!

Why do people think its ok to take the piss out of the christian faith.

Catholic schools actually do teach about other religions as Im sure do other faith schools. My DCs have been to the local mosque, hindu temple and synagog during the teaching of these religions to get a better understanding.

Apart from being taught the beliefs of the Catholic church, my children have been taught the values of those teachings and are expected to live by those values, both in school and outside. This means they should think of others and try to not be selfish and show respect.

If they deside when they grow up that they dont believe any of it, they will at least they will have those values.

Yes, they would sit on the bus when they were three, singing "Thank you Lord" at the top of they're voices, better that than "sex on the beach." (I remember plenty of three year olds singing that when it was in the charts)

[GrimmaTheNome]

I think the options seeker put were just fine. As shown by the overwhelming support for the propositions. Religious education, but no indoctrination.

I would really quite like a newspaper to pick up the results of this thread but I bet they won't.

[GrimmaTheNome]

Why do people think its ok to take the piss out of the christian faith.

wanting secular schools is not 'taking the piss out of the christian faith'. Its simply not wanting children to be told by authority figures other than their parents that one world view is true (and therefore by definition all others are false). Its certainly not racist to abhor faith schools which are frequently divisive. Where I live, the preponderance of CofE and RC schools in an ethnically diverse area causes racial discrimination. Not deliberately, no doubt but thats the effect.

[Tortington]

i am catholic, but if i ruled the world RE would be in the parents domain.

if a parent wants to religously instruct their children, then fine. but it has no place taking time away from core subjects.

[Tortington]

my children were never taught creationism

[ravenAK]

Definitely secular.

Have one subject called 'Philosophy & Ethics', & cover the useful stuff from Citizenship, PSHCE & RE under its umbrella.

On a practical, 'need to know at age 11-16' basis, I reckon one lesson a week should cover it generously.

[Portofino]

State schools here are secular and you at some point choose between an RE track in Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, or Islam. Or there is Morals - whatever that emcompasses. We haven't reached that point yet and I have only considered the subject lightly.

I have a CofE background, but am not religious. But religion is part of everyone's culture. I feel it is important that children understand fully why we celebrate the holidays and festivals that we do, even from a historical/social perspective. I would rather that dd was instructed about religion generally, than have no religious instruction at all ie the Morals track. But doesn't look like there is that option.

Dd goes to a very multi-cultural school. The majority of Christian children will come from a Catholic background rather than a protestant one. Maybe it's time I started to inform MYSELF a bit more about different religions.

[teamcullen]

Grimma one quarter of the children in my DCs school are from other ethnic backgrounds. Due to the way they are included, respected and valued as indiviuals in our primary school, they have no problems settling into secondary school and do not feel segregated to certain groups. Many of these children come to this country seeking asylum and are from very poor families living with God knows what horrors in their past.

I think it is very important that children have the opertunity to learn about other religions. But people have to remember that religions are peoples faiths and therefore the point is that they have FAITH even if they cant prove it.

My point was that some of the comments made earlier in this thread where people took the piss out of God and Jesus would have been deemed offensive and rasict if those comments had been made about Allah.

[seeker]

I have no problem at all with other people having faith. Of course I don't. What I object to is my children being taught at an ordinary state school that some of the articles of that faith are facts. I also object to them being obliged to practice elements of that faith. Of course I could withdraw them, but i see no reason why my children should be withdrawn from part of the community life of their school. It is entirely possible to ahve assemblies for example that have space for quiet reflection, or have an element of the transcendent, without being religious.

[Snorbs]

teamcullen, I don't think anyone here is significantly arguing against religion being taught in RE in state secular schools. That's cool with me, provided a good range of religions are covered.

What I have got a beef with is my tax money going towards the running costs of schools that my children are excluded in because they don't share the same faith.

By the way, for most of the major world religions there is no firm connection between race and belief. Disparaging, eg, Islam (or Christianity, Bhuddism and so on) would not be racist because you would not be disparaging a particular racial group. Sure, it might be offensive to those who share the beliefs being disparaged but that doesn't make it racism.

[Snorbs]

bah - /in/from/

[SolidGoldBrass]

My contempt for superstition in all forms is not racist. I think Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Shinto and the rest all as daft as Christianity. The central premise (that there are higher invisible creatures that need to be placated and flattered) is a load of old bollocks and always has been. Yes, all have nice myths and enjoyable festivals etc, and I am all in favour of children learning about this stuff in terms of history, culture etc, but I don't want them being taught that any of it is facts.

[daftpunk]

snorbs..why would you want your children to go to a faith school if you are a non believer....

plenty of my tax money goes on services i will never use.

[seeker]

There is NO SUCH THING as a secular school in this country. Even non-faith schools like ours are oblived to have collective worship that it "broadly Christian in nature" I CANNOT send my child to a state school in this country without them being expected to take part in Christian worship as part of the school day.

[teamcullen]

Snorbs- Faith schools are partly funded by the Archdiosis, which is why they are allowed to teach their faith and values as a dominant part of the curriculum. As they also have funding from the local Authority, they are expected to offer any places they cant fill to children from other faiths and follow the National Curriculum. As nursery places are funded by the government, faith schools are obliged to take children from all denominations.

Also faith schools have a seperate Ofsted report on top of the normal Ofsted to ensure they are teaching religion in a well balanced way and in accordance to national guidelines.

Also I will change my wording from rasist to predjudice, however Im sure due to the terrorist activities over the past few years by the minorty, there are many people whos belief is Islam, who have been targeted in what thet would call rasist attacks.

I am not saying that anybody targeted in such a way on this thread, but I do find it dissapointing that people can take the piss out of what others believe when it comes to christianity.

[Tidey]

Yes, they should be. I want DS to learn about different religions but if I was that desperate for him to pray in assembly I would have chosen a C of E school. I also strongly disagree that the only performance they do all year is a Nativity. If they did other plays about creation stories or festivals from other religions I wouldn't mind. It all seems incredibly unbalanced.

[GrimmaTheNome]

daftpunk... maybe the point is that for a lot of us the nearest state school is a service which we pay for which we would very much like to be able to use but can't, either because they wont let a kid in if its parents have the wrong set of beliefs, or because our integrity won't let us.

I know this thread is meant to be a poll not a debate but I've never heard a single good reason for faith schools. Moral values? Those are categorically NOT the preserve of any religion. Knowledge about religion? Better presented impartially in RE than onesidedly. Actual worship? Best done in a church or mosque or temple or at home, not a school hall.