Yes/no poll on religion in state schools.

[seeker]

Do you think state schools should be secular, but with RE lessons giving information about all the main world religions as part of the curriculum?

[daftpunk]

no

[daftpunk]

religious schools are usually better.

[deepdarkwood]

Yes (agree with sorky)

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Daftpunk, religious schools are usually better than what? There's no such thing as a secular school for comparison!

[LaurieFairyCake]

religious schools get better results not because of religion but because they are selective which naturally attracts higher socio-economic group children.

[UnquietDad]

Even if religious schools are "usually better", which is debatable (and yes, it is, because I'm debating it), then are they better because they are religious or because of other reasons such as the ethos, attracting more interested parents etc.? And who's to say this wouldn't still be the case if the school was secular? Anyway, if all schools were secular it wouldn't matter.

[daftpunk]

ok, catholic schools are usually better.

[sorky]

I would like to suggest that many of the parents masquerading as religious, in order to secure entry into a faith school, would much rather send them to a Secular school.
Agree it's more to do with selection and socio-economic status as to why these schools outperform in the league tables.

[UnquietDad]

If there were no longer any such thing as a "catholic school", then "catholic schools" would not do better because there wouldn't be any. Being catholic is not an argument for existing.

[ZephirineDrouhin]

As long as they are teaching children to be nice to each other I couldn't give a flying fuck whether they do it by telling stories about Jesus, Mohammed or Doctor Who. But state schools should absolutely not be allowed to select children on the grounds of their parents' religion. That is utterly wrong.

[UnquietDad]

Now what's an idea Zephirine - Doctor Who School! Now you're talking... Long scarves compulsory, an episode a day at Assembly, and any parent getting Colin Baker and Tom Baker mixed up had better watch out...

[daftpunk]

lol uqd....

from my experience...catholic children are better behaved.

[gorionine]

I think as long as you have a choice about which school you send your child in ther is no real reason to "abolish" faith schools.

[UnquietDad]

Yes, but... if that is the case... are they better behaved because they are catholic? This is the point. And even if one can prove beyond all doubt that they are, is that sufficient argument for teaching superstition as truth in schools?

[GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob]

but there is a large difference between 'telling stories' and "presenting stories as fact"

ffs even when ds2 came home and told me all about 'this man Jesus who was nailed up onto a cross until he died', I managed to choke out "Mummy and Daddy think that is horseshit" rather than just "that is horseshit"

and if they are just 'telling stories' there are far better than the cobbled-together poorly written tripe that makes up most of the Christian scriptures

[UnquietDad]

gorionine - but this is exactly the problem. A lot of people don't have a "choice", partly because of the existence of faith schools.

[undercoverelephant]

I felt disapproving when parents at DS's nursery celebrated getting a place at "outstanding" local RC school. Hated the ethos of social exclusion that comes with religious segregation, not to mention the religious teaching itself...

But then realised that I was being (probably equally) exclusive with my own DCs' education by buying a house in the expensive catchment of a good state school.

Ho hum.

[daftpunk]

plus, and again i have experience of this.....non religious schools who are prepared to have RE lessons will talk about every religion but mine!

[weblette]

Definite yes.

[UnquietDad]

Of course, it's quite likely that there was a guy called Jesus who was nailed up on to a cross until he died.

I mean, that sort of thing went on a lot in Roman times, especially to people who they saw as a threat - like wandering prophets with a lot of support. I don't have any issues with that.

It's the whole "being the son of a being called god and coming back from the dead like some Bronze Age version of David Blaine" which I like to suggest may be a little fanciful.

[LaurieFairyCake]

there's no 'prepared to have RE' lessons - they are compulsory and taught as part of the national curriculum.

Are you a Druid? They teach different religions but at gcse level they teach the predominant ones (to promote tolerance amongst other things)

[seeker]

What is your religion, daftpunk?

[GreensleevesFlouncedLikeAKnob]

Oh yes I'm sure there were hundreds of people called Jesus or similar who were crucified or flogged to death or stoned or whatever

that's part of what makes this kind of indoctrination so loopy though - allegedly Jesus died a horrible death for what he believed was the good of humanity - thousands of people have done exactly that throughout history

I suppose it's the resurrection bit that makes it (IMO) horseshite - and it's not even an original myth

if we want a secular (and therefore balanced/tolerant etc) society, we MUST have secular schools - religious indoctrination in schools is increasingly anachronistic

I like to think our children won't still be having this wrangle when they are parents

[seeker]

STOP STOP STOP - this is supposed to be a yes/no thread!!! There's another one for debating on!!!!!

[gorionine]

You are probably right Unquietdad. I have based my post on my own experience which I do realise might not be everyone else's.