OMG. Pupil rapes teacher!

[Hulababy]

Here on BBC

I know behaviour and discipline is a real issue in schools now, and that many many teachers are either physically or verbally abused daily. But this?

[NomDePlume]

Blimey.... It makes you wonder why people teach in these violent and socially deprived inner-city areas. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that they do, but I think you have to be a very particular type of person for the job.

[Slinky]

I've just seen this and came on here to post the link.

I'm shocked and disgusted - FGS, these teachers are just doing their jobs at the end of the day -you'd never think anything like this would happen in a school.

[Blu]

NomdePlume - do we know that it was at a 'violent and socially deprived inner-city school'? Not all central london schools are....

[NomDePlume]

Sorry, Blu. You are of course correct, I guess I just assumed that a school where a pupil rapes a teacher has some social problems. A sweeping generalisation, my statement was about teaching in 'violent and socially deprived areas' and perhaps this school shouldn't have been included in that,but I stand by my original statement that teachers who teach in 'problematic' areas must a have a very special motivation.

[Twinkie]

i know I am going to open a can of worms here but I really think somehow we have to instill discipline back into children somehow - both at home and at school - FFS rape in school - where will it stop - I would not be a teacher for all of the tea in China and with things like this happening I can see lots of others deciding that without appropriate back up and protection from students they won't want to carry on being teachers either and then where we will be???

[Blu]

NdP - I do agree with you about what teachers take on! But, whatever the eventual news about which scshool it was, the horrible truth is that some boys / men are rapists, whatever their circumstances.
Shudder.
BTW, I have a horrible feeling that this sort of thing happens more than we know. I know a teacher who was sexually assaulted by a boy at school

[Blu]

Twinkie - sadly, I think that if a boy is capable of raping someone, the problems are probably beyond discipline at school - though of course a school is important in shaping respect, compassion, behaviour etc. Don't think the school would be the major factor in determining whether a pupil raped a teacher, though.

[muminlondon]

This ties is very depressingly with articles in the Guardian today - Today's youth: anxious, depressed, anti-social , and commentary about parenting Teenage canaries (although I doubt the author was blaming exams for teenage rape).

[Twinkie]

I know what you mean Blu but it seems to me that the route of all these problems is that there are just no come back for crime these days, no adequate punishment - I know I am going to sound harsh but these kids need to realise that there is a come back - at the moment you can't publish their name, you can't lock them up for god knows how long until they have commited crimes time and time again whilst the people they are commiting the crimes against are slowly going mad - no wonder there are that many kids about who have no respect for society or the law!!

[SenoraPostrophe]

that is shocking, but Twinkie, I have to disagree.

The boy in question has been held in custody and afaik the number of kids sent to young offenders institutions has been rising of late.

[Papillon]

Problems are not solved by harsher sentencing - that is violence against violence imo

Giving a young person a chance to redeem themselves. Naming and shaming then throwing away the key is a cost to society, financially and socially.

[Twinkie]

So where do these kids that they have to use ABSOs and the like on get the message that they can just do exactley what they want to do and get away with it.

I know I sound awful but I look at the little shits on TV and the ones around where I live who think it acceptable to smash phoneboxes and bus stops just for a laugh and think that maybe if the punsihment was a few good lashes they would actually think twice!!

[hmb]

THis is obviously an exteem case, thankfully a rare one.

Sadly what is not rare is the constant disrespect tha is shown to teachers, even in 'good' schools.

A substantial minority of children now feel that they can behave any way they choose in lessons, and heaven help the teacher who tries to stop them. The level of disruption in the avarage class would shock most people I think.

Today for example, I repeatedly had to tell a girl to stop chatting in class. these were not quick quiet words but having a conversation while I was trying to teach. I insited that she work and she said, soto voce, 'Oh for fucks sake'. This girl is 13 and what is worrying is that she honestly thinks that this sort of behaviour is OK.

Some of the kids that I teach are essentially feral. The have no manners or standards of behaviour what so ever. The trouble is that their parents don't seem to either.

[Twinkie]

do you think some sort of physical punsihment - like if they thought they were going to get the cane or something like that would help?? I remember my grandpa saying thats what stopped them getting into trouble or disrespecting the teachers - just the threat of getting the cane in those days??

I really think that rehabilitating these kids will have no effect - they have gone too far and have no respect for anyone else or their property!!

[hmb]

No, I wouldn't like to see a return of the cane. I don't think beating them would do any good, as many of them already come from violent families.

What I would like to see is a strict and consistant behaviour policy. We all know that the worst thing that you can do as parents is to show a child a 'divided' front. I would like there to be more liason and support between parents and staff members.

I would like to see the use of more internal exclusion. Far too many kids get a holiday from school as a reward for their bad behaviour. I would like them to be in school doing menial, unpleasent but useful tasks, like picking up litter and scrubbing down tables that have been written on. I would like this work to be done for the full school day, with short breakes for food etc.

I would like each school to have a fully staffed behavioural unit, when troublemakes could be sent to work in isolation. That way they wouln't disrupt the education of others.

And I'd like some parents (the minority) to be forced to give a damn and teach their kids how to behave! Family classes on a Saterday might be a nice idea!

[Twinkie]

Goodness me great ideas but where would the funding come from - cane from B&Q far cheaper (am joking here hmb!!) - do you think it is because the parents don't care or because the kids have no respect for them either - it to me is easier to disobey a parent than a teacher so by the time they have got to the stage where they disobey a teacher it seems their parents would have no hold over them anyways??

Anyways it would be contravening their rights either way caning them or making them do menial stuff - would end up in ECOHR!!

[Papillon]

thats not a bad idea hmb ... family classes if the child offends then the family all have to sit dentention or scrub off graffeti

[Blu]

Twinkie - I can understand your frustration - I am exasperated by thoughtless destructive behaviour. But my DP went to a school where parental attenion/concern was negligible for many kids, v rough, v bad educational standards (the school was eventually closed down) and full of criminals in the making - DP keeps seeing his ex classmates in the 'wrong' columns in the paper! The cane was also used - a lot, by the sound of it. DP says that yes, the idea of it terrified the kids who were basically on the right track, but with the odd mischievous instinct - but that the 'bad' kids, who were engaged in serious anti-social behaviour, were beaten often, severely, and with absolutely no effect. they developed a hardened bravado to it, and certainly did not improve in any way.

[hmb]

Is it because the parents don't care? Not always. You get to see some wonderful people who are at their wits end at the behaviour of their kids. Some dont think the behaviour is a problem early enough. You tend to get families who will insist that the child's behaviour is OK and that the school is just picking on them. This lasts up to the point where the kid starts to act out at home. By then it is much harder to bring the kid back on the track, not impossible but much harder. Some will never believe that their kid can do wrong, the kids know this and play to it. And then you get the small number of deeply disfunctional families who don't/ can't give a shit. Some had a bad time in school and positivly enjoy their kids bad behavior. Others see no reason for education and it all rubs off.

Another major probelm is that these kids honestly think that they will walk out of school with no GCSEs and get a job as a model/pop star/footballer etc.

The sad reaily is that few will and the rest will need to get used to crappy jobs 'cos that is what they will get.

We need a *major re-think of what we want education to do for kids, and forget the idea that the only that that has value is the academic life. For many kids it is not what they are good at and they see no reason for it. We need good quality vocational work, heavy in the practical side of things to switch these kids back on to learning.

[Twinkie]

I have always thought that maybe teaching kids about what needs to be paid for in the home and accounts was quite a good way of showing how much needed to be earnt and then bringing family and stuff into it - something that most kids wouldn't realise.

And what bout teaching kids to read using Highway Code - like saying in this day and age sonny you could probably get by not being able to read but hey if you don't you won't be able to drive?? (Me thnking that driving is high on list of something a teenage boy would want to do??)

Also bring back apprenticeships - then if kids attain a certain level at school they can leave and be an apprentice and don't have to go to school - but of course have to return if they don't go to the work or don't turn up!! - This could be interspursed with qualifications pertaining to their chosen trade so they have to do a certain amount of academic work??

[Blu]

You could have been the brains behind the most recent "That'll teach 'Em", Twinkie!

I do think there's a lot to be said for enabling kids to do the things that they are good at, and that they enjoy, and apprenticeship education could be a lot better than some of the meaningless job placements we are suposed to host.

Because of family set-ups and the v high rate of male unemployment in the area I live and work in, very very many boys grow up in families where they have not one single employed role model.

[hmb]

Or for that matter, Blu any sort of male role model

Many of them simply know what it is to be an adult male, and try to fill the gap by aping 'laddish' culture.

[Frenchgirl]

hmb you do talk so much sense, I always end up thinking 'absolutely' when I read your posts on education. Totally and utterly agree with you.