Selling alcohol at primary school events - is this wrong?

[tigermoth]

I was discussing this with a friend recently. Do you think it sends out the wrong message? Should alcohol be so acceptable? I don't think family drinking is wrong, but is primary school the right place for it?

There's a bar run by PTA members at all our school's evening events, except formal meetings. Many parents, like me, drive to the events, so having a bar is putting temptation in our way. In addition, our bar sells things like 'reef'a and 'bacardi breezers' so not quite alcopops but nearly. At the school Leavers Evening, lots of Year 6s were coming up to the bar alone and asking for beer and wine, allegedly for their parents....

[firestorm]

i dont see a problem in having alcohol at a pta meeting in the evening.

[Fio2]

some of you lot need to lighten up! We have always had alcohol at summer fte's etc I have no problem at all with it

[hmb]

I think that as it is an evening 'do' the rules are somewhat changed. Most evening concerts at dds and dss school have wine (or soft drink) option. However it isn't a bar, and I have never seen people get out of control, or even mildly tipsy. People don't go and buy a round of drinks. They are not there to drink, as such, but to watch their kids in the concert of whatever. And while they are doing that they may have a glass of wine.

If it got to the point that people we seeing it as drinking first, then I would re-think the situation.

[tigermoth]

Freckle, I wish wine was served at our PTA meetings. Can't see a problem if children aren't there anyway.

It's not the children seeing parents drinking thing I have doubts about. If I did I'd have to radically chance my lifestyle! It's just that children do IMO behave differently when they are in school. They are expected to. They are in a group situation for starters, they are told to walk not run, talk not shout, listen, not interrupting the teacher, sit nicely and line up etc etc. They are also there to work. I don't expect my sons to follow those same rules all the time at home. It's like when I go to work - my behaviour is different. Those evening school events are arguably an extension of the school day. Children singing in choirs and performing in plays are still having to follow school rules. They are still on duty. If I was on duty in the evening, conducting an evening presentation or going to a meeting, would I feel alcohol was appropriate then? probably not.

I don't know what I am saying, really, just that it's the school element that makes me think twice. Now if it was a children's birthday party in the school hall, disco, parents invited, everyone off duty, then I can't see anything wrong with alcohol being available for the parents.

[Freckle]

The PTA at the boys' school offer wine as an incentive to get parents to turn up to meetings. There's usually a pretty poor turn-out, but apparently it was far worse before they offered wine. And it's not just the alcoholics who turn up now - many who do take orange juice instead. I think it just makes the meeting a bit more sociable and sometimes that's what parents want if they've been at work all day. No children at these meetings anyway.

[hmb]

And agree that parents out of control must have been a dreadful thing to cope with, awful.

[hmb]

A single glass of wine, or even two, does not make me even remotely out of control. And before anyone posts I never drink and drive, as alcohol does affect fine motor control. A single glass does not affact my ability to look after my children.

Sadly alcholics and children don't mix, but a single glass does not make me that.

[lydialemon]

Sympathy and hugs Firestorm,

My Dad used to binge drink a couple of times a year for as long as I can remember and that was bad enough. Can't imagine how bad it would be for both parents, all the time

[firestorm]

i grew up in a house where alcohol was a very high priority for both my parents. i witnessed the arguments it caused & endured mental & physical abuse because of it (not to mention the embarasment when dad was p**d in public)
children & alcohol dont mix. its as simple as that. if you are in charge of children then its your job to be completely in control of yourself. even one drink has some effect on the concerntration levels. i save my drinking for the evening when its my time the children sometimes come downstairs & know that mum & dad enjoy a beer when theyve gone to bed, & thats fine.
personally ive never seen the attraction with daytime drinking anyway. i prefer to be in control.

[tigermoth]

I am still undecided - very interesting to read your views. I think crowd situations can equal lost children alcohol or not, and that the level of supervision isn't usually neatly related to alcohol consumption (though it can be sometimes). I think most people drink moderately at school events and I firmly believe that moderate drinking is not a threat to family life.

But, talking to my friend, thinking of those Year 6s trying to nab some alcohol from the PTA bar, I have sympathy with the view that it's good if children see adults enjoying themselves together without drinking alcohol, especially when the gathering is child centered. Still not sure where I stand on this one.

[Jimjams]

Oh not being rude about the PTA there- it's just "here's 350 completelty normal children- and here's ds1". Hmm mines a large red wine please.....

[Jimjams]

Tell you what if I was ever to go to one of DS1's school events I think I would need a glass of wine just to get through it

[hmb]

I just think that it is probably a good way to raise money. We sometimes get wine at parents evenings!

[Twiglett]

message withdrawn

[hmb]

Thinking about it, my children have seen me drink alcohol all of their lives. A glass of wine with Sunday Lunch is the norm in our house, a glass of beer with a BBQ. They have never seen me drunk, or te worse for drink. And Like Jimjams, my dd is allowd a very small amount of wine, diluted in a glass of water. Make it 'illicit' and they want it all the more imho.

[CountessDracula]

I can't see the problem with it. If you hide alcohol from kids they are probably more likely to see it as something forbidden and get into it in a big way as teenagers.

[hmb]

And I once lost ds at Disneyland Paris when stone cold sober. Turned to talk to dh for a few second (yes realy) and off ds shot). The worst moment of my life

[hmb]

I wouldn't have any objection to alcohol being served, and fully agree that the issue is how well the children are being supervised rather than the presence of booze.. Dh never drinks, and I have the odd glss of wine. In general I am better at keeping and eye on the children tho.

I would object if someone became drunk, but that , to my mind, is a very different issue.

[twogorgeousboys]

My friend and her family could not be comforted by any of our efforts to say "it could have happened anyway." They just wished that one of them had not drunk any alcohol whatsoever and been completely in charge of the supervision of the children - "like you do when a group goes out for a few drinks and the driver stays on soft drinks" she said.

Was reminded of this by Lydialemon's comments.

Going to bow out of this thread now as I've mad myself feel sad .

[carla]

Lm!

[lydialemon]

I luuurvve being boring

[carla]

lydialemon... ... glad you weren't there then

[lydialemon]

We have alcohol at evening dos, say at our 'dinner/dance' we hold each year, but I'd feel very dubious if they extended that to day time events such as the summer fete. This thread has made me feel like I must be a bit prudish about alcohol (getting old )

Prekids I was in the pub or bar once or twice a week, but now I very rarely drink at all and I can't actually remember the last time I was drunk. Now, this is my personal opinion and no criticism of anyone else, BUT if having however many drinks means I'm judged incapable of driving safely how can I then feel comfortable having my kids dependent on me in the same situation? This isn't to say that I never drink, I would just never do it if DH was as well. I need someone to be totaly in control just in case one of the kids got sick, had a nightmare or one of the many other things kids like to wake up with!

Just to make it worse....I really dislike day time drinking anyway, always have done.

[carla]

Jimjams, dh (who used to be bursar at local school) told me everyone who sold alcohol had to have a licence, but that for things like sports day/Christmas parties most would turn a blind eye to it. I'm certain that our school didn't apply for one. Our yr1 had a teddy bear's picnic last week, and I took along a jug of Pimm's for the mums. They all seemed really appreciative ... and someone even commented on how 'civilised' it made it! It's not like we're all out on some pre-children bender, is it? /

[Jimjams]

Tend to agree with freckle. The one time I have lost ds1 was when we were at a large christening party. People were drinking, but I wasn't as a) I was driving and b) I was pregnant. I was chatting though and I thought dh was watching him; he thought I was. We suddenly realised he was lost. The party was in a very large house with very large grounds, next to a busy road with a kind of large pond/lake in the grounds. Luckily the children's entertainer saw him and set off after him. She appeared from behind the stable block- a little speck in the distance. Makes me shiver to think about it now- he was very close to the road there.

But no alcohol involved (not even one glass I never drink anything whilst driving) just a momentary lapse.