Grammar offers 10 places to those triggering "pupil premium"

[legallady]

Forgive me if this is a regular occurrence at other grammars but for those on the recent grammar thread, I thought it was interesting that Nonsuch High ( highly selective grammar in S W London) has reserved it's first 10 places for girls who have triggered the pupil premium at their primary school at any time in the last six years.

I know it's only ten out of 180 but at least they have thought about it. It may well be that they're just after the additional money but I like to think that their motives are a little more altruistic than that!

[Retropear]

So the rich aren't affected at all.They still get their tutored and privately educated kids in but those not on pp but not wealthy miss out.

Said places will come from poorer families just above or the squeezed middle the Tories love to hate who can't afford tutoring as their results will be lower.

Shouldn't think any rich families are the slightest bit worried.

[straggle]

They're all given a chance to sit the test and presumably even if those 10 have scores below the rest they are accepted. Actually sound very fair. To register for FSM you have to give proof of benefits or an NI number presumably where they can check eligibility for tax credits/income online. I can't really imagine many being in a position of claiming benefits then getting a job and after only five years of saving have enough for the deposit on a house, because you can't claim benefits if you have savings of over a certain amount and you also have to wait for a certain length of time before you can claim (e.g. after redundancy). And many are still paying off previous debts. Might happen to divorced parents who never worked before, claim benefits then get a divorce settlement, but children in that situation are suffering emotional deprivation too.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

So it's pot luck really?

I mean te principle is lovely, to give them a better chance but it could potentially miss people who would benefit the most. It could seem unfair to many that their child didn't get in despite te crappy life they have has, yet that month their neighbour spent on FSM got her in.

It's better than nothing I guess but it will still screw some people over.

[straggle]

The interesting thing would be to see if the over tutored rich start turning their nose up at Nonsuch because it admits poor kids. I'm guessing a few would be put off by that.

[lougle]

It won't, Giles. They can't bring a subjective element into it. The criteria for Nonsuch is (as my post of 17:14 says):

-Pass the selective tests which every applicant must pass to get a place
-Live within 5.25km of the school
-Score in the top 10 scores of girls who have qualified for Ever6FSM funding.

If a girl lives within 5.25 km of the school and qualifies for Ever6FSM funding, but ranked 11th in the test compared with the other girls who qualified for Ever6FSM funding, then she would have to take her chances within the other criteria for admission, which means:

-Score ranked 85th or above in test

or

-living in catchment (5.25km) and ranked within the first (110 - x statemented children of selective ability - x looked after/previously looked after children of selective ability - number of girls admitted because they qualified for Ever6FSM, are of selective ability and live in catchment)

or

-highest score who pay council tax in a designated area.

[Retropear]

But it's just shuffling places around not reducing rich kids or getting more poorer kids in.As I said it will be those just over or in the middle who will lose places ie not the rich privately educated kids.

It's shit to be honest.

The hard working family that has worked it's butt off to not claim pp gets penalised and the numbers of rich privately kids in state grammar isn't reduced.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Right im with you now I think. :)

[MoreThanChristmasCrackers]

I hope all grammars do this as it will benefit so many people who wouldn't usually get the opportunity.
My dds best friend would qualify and she is as bright as a button. certainly wouldn't need tuition to pass the test.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

I can see what your saying retro

PP is by no means any where near a good enough indicator of Need. But it's all they have until they think of something else. Does anyone know what's happening with PP anyway with this proposed FSM for every infant child as how will they tell? And if a child is no longer on them by juniors would they have been missed if that makes sense?

[straggle]

Wonder how many are coming from private schools to Nonsuch?

In Sutton the proportion at private primaries overall is 5% but in neighbouring Croydon it's 8%, 12% in Merton and probably high in Surrey. But if the average percentage for private pupils at grammars is 13% (i.e. they are better prepared) then I'm guessing maybe 15-20% are from private schools. Anyone know for sure?

5% on pupil premium is a small number in comparison. Sad reflection of the times that people should resent the poor for taking up the places rather than the rich.

[JohnnyBarthes]

I bore myself, but once again I am so bloody glad we live in a normal part of England where we ditched the 11+ years ago.

[soul2000]

At first glance this looks very good, its only when you look at the Dept of Education Performance figures, that the real story comes out.

Nonsuch has 1.8% FSM pupils out of 910 pupils in Yr7-11 that equals 182 pupils per year = 3 FSM Pupils per year Average.

What is more telling though is that in the last 6 years according to the Dept of Education, 4.9% of Pupils have at one time been eligible for FSM.

This is almost identical to the 5.4% that they are reserving places for.

There are other problems with this, one being what happens if 10 girls with FSM don't get the required score. If this happens do the school take the highest scoring 10 girls regardless of whether they "PASSED" . If they were to do that this could lead to all kinds of problems about whether the girls should be there.

[lougle]

more than that, tiggy:

qualify by passing the test, triggered the Ever6FSM PP and live within 5.25km.

[Shootingatpigeons]

Soul There was I feeling heartened at least one state Grammar was addressing the issue . Surely the issue is making the entrance exams truly tutor proof? When I applied it was teacher assessed with the borderlines going for a one day assessment exercise of tests, interviews and other activities to build up a full picture to act as a quality control. It is only ten years ago that the Grammar School area my family live in abandoned that system in favour of VR / NVR and the proportion of FSM has gone down and private school pupils getting in has gone up

[curlew]

Window dressing. They have to sit and pass the bloody test first. And pupil premium children don't. So big whoop to the school for a meaningless bit of self promotion.

[OnGoldenPond]

I think curlew meant that DCs on pupil premium don't pass the test not that they don't have to pass the test.

All this could be avoided if the last remaining grammar schools were abolished and we consigned this unfair system of determining a child's whole future by an ex taken at age 11 to history. A proper comprehensive system would give ALL children a fair chance.

[curlew]

Ongoldenpond- yes, thank you that is what I meant. I wasn't clear.