Bloody Gove! Dd in state of total discombobulation re early entry GCSEs - please help me get my head round this in practical manner!

[Northernlurker]

Because what I want to do is get a train to London, doorstep the git Gove and give him an earful.

So- dd1 attends a comprehensive school. Pretty good school tbh with conscientous and committed staff. She is doing 11 GCSEs:

Maths
Eng Lan
Eng Lit
History
French
German
Art
Textiles
Triple science

They also completed the RS short course whatsit last year. She got an A. Her targets for all of the above are A except for art where it's an A.
She's so far done some controlled assessments for English and also speaking and listening and achieved well in these. The school's plan has always been to enter all the cohort this November with retakes in June if needed. Dd1 has worked hard all term (plenty of stress on her and me both) with November in mind. They did a mock just two weeks ago. Last week we got a letter telling us about a meeting tonight, called due to the school's uncertainty of how to proceed in the light of the recent announcements re early entry. Upshot is they won't be entering any student in November. It's quite clear from the meeting that dh went to taht it isn't the school's league table performance that is their concern. They have some very able students who should achieve well above a C but they basically dare not risk putting them in because every sign they can see suggests that there will be further interference with grade boundaries. We are horrified by this but I totally take their point. In May their speaking and listening was scrutinised and the moderation moderated or whatnot. It was rated excellent. Yesterday they got a letter saying it would be reviewed. There's no way to see that other than as a threat to discourage early entry.

Dd1 is devastated by this. She's working well and was winding herself up (in every sense) to take the blooming exams next month, get A/A* and if she did that then it was done. Finished. Allowing her more time to stress about the others in June. Now that 'second chance' option has been taken away and she'll lose the speaking and listening marks already done.
School are also talking about doing Further Maths or similar because that's what the plan for the top set was anyway. I do NOT want her doing MORE bloody summer exams.

So my questions wise mumsnetters are:

1. What would you do in this scenario. Dh and I think we have to accept the school's decision. Are we right to think that?
   
   
2. How do you reglue a totally unglued 15yr old who likes structure and order and is struggling to accept that grade boundaries can be mucked around with and no it isn't fair (anybody giving me an answer that works on this one can pretty much name their price)
   
   
3. Should I resist any attempt to enter her for further qualifications?
   
   
4. has anybody else come across this scenario and what is your school doing?
   
   Poor dd, 4 boubon biscuits and some popcorn have just disappeared in to the living room where she's trying to watch the Big Bang Theory wrapped in a blanket but she's still stifling sobs.

[Talkinpeace]

Bruffin
DCs school does not do early entry. November or June is one issue.

The far worse issue is the retrospective changes to the English Exam.

The school did prepare year 11 pupils for the speaking and listening test - as per the curriculum when they started their GCSE studies.
They were half way through a double lesson on that very subject when they were told that all of their work was a waste of time
(press release by the DFE not filtered to teachers in advance)
Please explain to me how that is good for education?

DD came home nearly in tears for friends whose chances of a C have been destroyed more than half way through their studies.
How is that good for the UKs chances in OECD and PISA tests ?

[Northernlurker]

'The far worse issue is the retrospective changes to the English Exam'

Good point. Selfishly this has assumed slightly less importance to me because although dd had excellent marks that she now loses, she has the ability to still do well on the written papers (I hope!) However for other pupils this is a major headache and utterly unfair. English is a spoken language. Communicating and understanding effectively is about more than reading and writing.

[TheAngryCheeseCracker]

What I don't understand is:

Sitting exams early, was for the ones who were going to get A's, right? So the OP DD and others will still probably get A's anyway, they just have to sit them a bit later?

Why the tears and hysteria? Genuine question, btw. I don't understand.

Was the idea, until now, for the "bright" kids to sit some exams early, so they could then focus on their other GCSE's afterwards? Whilst other kids have to sit all the exams in one go and don't have this luxury? Isn't that giving an advantage to the already advantaged?

If your daughter would have gotten an A* in November, she'll do just as well or better in June, won't she?

Agree Gove should not change rules mid year, it is unsettling, but surely not a great tragedy...? (not being deliberately obtuse, but an immigrant trying to make sense of the UK education system)

[Talkinpeace]

Northernlurker
My daughter will get her A*
Having been at the parents evening at Peter Symonds last night there were parents really worried about getting across the C/D boundary for the oh so critical English exam.

FFS they have less than two terms of teaching left and now that shithead Gove changes the rules on them.
How very dare he.

Change it for the current year 9 and 10 maybe, but NOT the current year 11.

[TheAngryCheeseCracker]

Talkin, how were their chances of a C destroyed ? (feeling panicky now for my DS!) Help, I don't understand.

[Caoimhe]

Regarding removing speaking and listening from the Eng Lang final grade, children at independent schools doing the Edexcel IGCSE in Eng Lang will still be able to include the speaking and listening in their final grade. Seems a tad unfair on state schools who can't do that particular exam.

[IShallWearMidnight]

some DC in lower sets would have got higher marks in the Speaking and Listening CAs which would compensate for lower marks in the (generally harder for these DCs) other parts. So if the Speaking no longer counts towards the grade, they're relying on getting the C from the parts of the exam they're less likely to do well in.

[Talkinpeace]

TheAngrycheese
The kids have done more than half of the course. They worked all last year practicing for a specific paper. For some of them that paper is the most important. NOW they are told that all that work was worthless and will not be counted, even though it was on the curriculum when they started the course.

Think of a maths test where you are told to learn all of the times tables to 14 . Then when you have nearly finished your studies, they decide you only needed to learn the odd number tables. How would you feel?

[MrsHerculePoirot]

Angry sitting exams early can be for all sorts of reasons - some good and some not so good depending on opinion. At my last high achieving school we entered top sets early to get one GCSE out of the way, and to allow them to further study Maths to a higher level in one format or another. At my current, much lower achieving school, we enter some students in November of Year 11 (see my posts earlier) because we know they may otherwise not make it until the end of the year in school. If we can get them the C grade in November, whatever happens to them outside of school, they will always have this to fall back on in the future. If we don't, we know from past experience they don't make it through year 11 and fail to achieve anything at all at GCSE.

Imagine you have been preparing for a really important exam for the last 15 months, you are approx 6 weeks away from sitting that exam, your revision is really getting going, you are really starting to feel confident. You have mapped out your study sessions, you know that once this is out of the way you have more time to concentrate on your other exams that are taking place later. Then all of a sudden that changes overnight and your teachers are in a situation where they have no idea what the best thing to do is to best support you achieve your potential. Schools want to do what is best for their pupils, but it is difficult to make those decisions when rules keep changing with no warning. With everyone being told how hard it is to get a job, how important qualifications are if you want to earn enough to even consider buying a property in the future, the pressure on the GCSE students today is phenomenal. It is horribly unsettling for them. I would hope that OP's daughter will still go on to achieve outstanding exam results that she deserves, but it is still difficult to have everything keep changing every 5 minutes so you don't know what you need to do exactly to get there.

[Charmingbaker]

It also gives the kids the sense that 'those in power' can do what they want, when they want with no recourse.
It's funny that 20 odd years ago when I was at school it was only the private and grammar schools that let children sit exams early. Several of my cousins and friends took maths and some other exams early, it was felt it would help them achieve top grades in all subjects and they all went off to todays Russell Group Unis. Was never seen as a problem then.

[TheAngryCheeseCracker]

Talkin, to be honest, knowing all the times tables would still be better than knowing only the odd ones, even if the "even" ones are never tested, would be my opinion.

Nothing you learn is ever "wasted" especially not when it comes to ENglish and Maths.

Should our kids be taught to the test only? How limiting.

MrsHerculePoirot, I think i get it. But still, anyone who can get an A in November should get a similar grade or better in JUne, no?

There seems to be an insane amount of pressure on GCSE students.

has it always been like this?

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Amongst the many very well made points, there is another one to consider. Children who have been busy revising full pelt for exams in November to have them then withdrawn have missed out on time when they could have been covering new and interesting material that would have increased their depth of understanding. Instead these past two months have been wasted. They will still have to revise for June.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

What I don't understand from Bruffin's posts is how is it remotely fair to hold back a highly intelligent child for 12 months when they are capable of passing exams "early".

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Dds school don't believe in early entry for things like maths and English. Instead they teach beyond the exam, so able children aren't held back but still get the optimum results they can.

[TheAngryCheeseCracker]

NOw kitten, that sounds a good idea

[BoneyBackJefferson]

So why don't they let them take the exam early and let them still AS?
Why make them waste a year doing something that they are already capable of doing?

[Talkinpeace]

Boneyback
My school could not let them start on the AS because it - and almost every other one in Hampshire - does not have a 6th form.

DD could have got an A about a year ago. By stretching herself and reading more and reading around she will get an A* rock solid.

but she is facing around 30 exams in the season next June ....

[BoneyBackJefferson]

talkinpeace

You don't need a 6th form to teach AS, you just need teachers that are able to teach the syllabus.

[bruffin]

Boney and Northernlurker
Russell Group Informed choices guide.
It says under the pre 16 qualifications requirements page 21

"A number of institutions ask that grades and number of subjects are achieved at one sitting" So taking an english exam early is doing that child a diservice and could be harming their future.

This is to prove the dc can handle the work load of a number of exams together. It is far easier to get an A/A* if you only have to take one or two exams at a time, compared to others taking the normal amount.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

bruffin

So taking English and maths early, then taking 9 or 10 exams the next year is bad?

How many exams must a child take to prove that they are "worthy" of a place at a RG uni?

[NoComet]

No, it wasn't always like this.

I have 8 straight A, O levels got without a huge amount of work and minimum panic.

And, coincidently, the only minor panic was caused by Geography course work.

Now days it just seems so ridiculously complicated. CAs, modules, exams in year 10.

Real GCSE papers at the same time as important mocks. Music and Drama final performances all over the place and that's before they move. Random rehearsals for these after school, which we simply couldn't have got home from.

Dates for English and science CAs have also moved with no warning.

It's chaos, but mostly just about organised chaos.

If no one touches anything it just about works and the teachers and DCs stay one step away from saying fuck it!

Gove's meddling is getting very close to some of the teachers, brightest and most borderline DCs actually crossing that line and saying fuck it through stress and feeling totally disrespected.

DD1 is lucky, she has dyslexia 25% extra time next to her name on the class list. If she misses her B due to Goves tinkering she may be able to bargain with sixth form.

She's very bright, she's very enthusiastic, if she gets an interview I think she'll be OK.

Many C/D boundary pupils and those who believe an A* is the only grade worth having will fair far worse.

[MrsHerculePoirot]

Angry I don't think the pressure has been as bad as it is right now. I think it got worse last year with the sudden, unexpected shift in grade boundaries and now the continuing unknown of what grade a piece of work is does not help. I would like to think that a student who was capable of achieving an A now should acheive that or better, but experience the year before last shows us that may not be true. Students who had work graded as a grade C in January, would have had exactly the same work graded as a D in June - so actually I no longer would say they will definitely get an A or more these days.

[MrsHerculePoirot]

Bruffin from what I am aware that mostly means they don't want them to resit, they want the grades from one sitting of the GCSEs. The next sentence in bold starts "Some do not accept re-sits at GCSE...". This is because they want to discourage students sitting early, with a plan to resit to improve.

Some RG unis do have a stipulation at A-level that they must sit three at the end of the two years rather than do those early, but if a student does one or two GCSEs early and then does not retake them and sits the rest of them at the end of year 11 this has not yet appeared to disadvantage any of them.

It could possibly be interpreted the way you are saying, but I have yet to see any university requirement that says ALL GCSEs must be sat at the end of Year 11 or else they won't get in...

[bruffin]

Why take that many exams in the first place, its a ridiculous and no where is there requirements for that number of GCSEs. It unecessarily stressful.
As i said DCS school do not do any early entries and dont timetable that many gcses. They allow top sets to do an extra gcse/btech as a twilight, but they tend to be art based or drama or a full RE instead of half. They regularly get dc into top universities including Oxbridge.

[TheAngryCheeseCracker]

Bruffin, o sensible one (no sarcasm!!!)

What do you think is a reasonable number of GCSE's? I would like DS to do A-levels, but I am not looking for unnecessary stress as he responds badly to too much pressure.

I want him to be happy, but have results to get him to the next level. What is required these days?

He is average but good at maths and science. Don't want to do 11 GCSE if not necessary nor do I want string of A* at all cost, if A's, B's and C's get him there too.

(he gets migraines and copes badly with stress)