Late Grammar School offer: over the moon but stressed/flummoxed

[PermaShattered]

What a 3 days we've had - any insightful comments welcome. In short:

1. Our daughter was offered 3rd choice (her 11+ score was about 30 down on passmark);
   
2. 3rd school is outstanding but we appealed to 2nd choice school as was our preference;
   
3. Last Friday took calls from our local Ed admissions authority saying why appealed when have offer from grammar school?
   
4. Said we hadn't. She made further calls to other relevant admissions authority and came back and told us we definitely have an offer and it would be in post next day (Saturday just gone);
   
5. It duly arrived, and we posted our acceptance same day (they should have got it today) - verbal acceptance of place given by phone on Friday;
   
6. On Friday the Authority also withdrew both our place at 3rd choice school and our appeal to 2nd choice school;
   
7. Today i take a call from a friend whose daughter got substantially higher score than my DD - and she is 188 on waiting list;
   
8. I call our admissions auth to check they received our acceptance (they said still in posttray but will be dealt with this afternoon);
   
9. I query whether there could possibly an error and i'm told categorically 'no'. And if there was, we have a written offer, accepted it and they can't take it off our daughter;
   

10. Finally, my other DS is that grammar school.

I'm perplexed. What could be a possible explanation?

[lougle]

In this situation, the OP is both morally and legally correct.

She queried the offer. She asked if there had been a mistake. The LA said 'no.' At that point, she was in full belief that her DD had done what was needed to secure a place. She accepted the place.

If the OP hadn't had contact from a friend, she would be none the wiser.

The legal precedent is that a withdrawal of offer within 24 hours is legitimate. A withdrawal of offer after 3 days is not. See the link above.

The OP had at least 5 days gap.

[DIddled]

Appeals exist so children who are not allocated a place as their mark was not high enough but they have passed, as well as those who have not passed but were expected to. I don't believe that a child who just scrapes a pass or even misses out and then wins an appeal will struggle once they start at grammar school. Conversely children can pass having been heavily tutored and then struggle. None of it is ideal sadly.

[badmumalert]

OP, I don't you can complain at people commenting on your status as a lawyer when you have written off all the wealthy children as stupid although surely as a lawyer I am guessing your child isn't on FSM

I understand you wanting the best for your child but is this really the right school for a merely moderately bright pupil - she will probably be in the bottom set for everything which will do her self-esteem no good.

I hope it is all resolved soon for your DD's sake. Must be awful for her not knowing where she is going despite being offered 2 Outstanding schools thus far.

[MTSgroupie]

Perma said that her friend's DC scored higher and is/was 118 on the list. Surely that means that there are 118 kids in front of Perma's DD plus the number of kids that scored lower than the friend's DC but higher than Perma's DD? If Perma's DD is given a place then surely all of the 118+ kids have grounds for appeal?

Sorry for being harsh Perma but if at least 118 kids scored higher than your DD then isn't she going to struggle at the school?

[SoupDragon]

when you have written off all the wealthy children as stupid

No she didn't.

[lougle]

No, MTSgroupie. The OP's DD had grounds for appeal because she was offered and accepted a school place that was withdrawn after a reasonable time. Cases show that 3 days is too long. The OP had the offer withdrawn after at least 5 days.

To appeal due to error, it must be shown that the LA mistake directly cost the child the place. That means that 117 children are excluded, because the mistake would only change their position by one place (i.e. the child who was no. 1 would get in, then no.2 would become no. 1, etc.)

This means that only child no. 1 on the waiting list would have grounds to appeal on the basis that, had the LA not made an error, they would have got a place.

[lougle]

'after a reasonable time' should read 'beyond a reasonable time'.

[PermaShattered]

Thanks soup
Lougle interestingly the place hasn't actually been withdrawn. a) i'm positive that the Director of Admissions didn't actually say it was withdrawn (an error on his part i assume) - he just said there was an error.

And we haven't had a written withdrawal either.

[Rainbowinthesky]

Hi. Been following this thread. How can you appeal without an actual rejection? Sounds like it's worth just sitting tight for now.
I would assume the op knows whether her dd will manage or it seeing as she has an older dc there already. Horrible situation to be in.

[LegoIsMyFriend]

Lougle, you say OP would have been none the wiser if her friend hadnt called but i understood she already knew that her dd had missed the pass mark for the grammar school by 30 marks? I really do appreciate this is a horrid situation for the OP and her DD but I don't agree it is morally right to now fight for a place that her daughter didn't qualify for.
But I'm obviously seeing this differently than others so I'll bow out.

[MTSgroupie]

Elsewhere it has been mentioned that the total mark was probably 300 and that missing the cutoff by 30 marks wasn't that big a deal since the DD only missed it by 10%. That is faulty maths. If the pass mark was 180 for eg and the DD missed that by 30 marks then 30 as a % of 180 (not the max possible 300) is a lot bigger number than 10%.

The OP doesn't believe in tutoring because a child would only struggle if they passed goes the argument. So I'm totally by her determination to get her DD into a school when there is a big academic gap between her and the kid that hopefully will also get in on appeal.

[MTSgroupie]

Tiggy - I am not questioning that the DD is GS calibre but it's like taking a DC from a village GS that scraped in where there was a simple 65% pass/fail and then putting her into a super selective where most/all scored 90%+. I'm not sure that I want my DC to be the kid that was always at the bottom.

[PermaShattered]

Update/responses:
Rainbow you're right - they haven't officially withdrawn the offer either verbally or in writing.
Lego i absolutely take your point but if you were in my position and saw the state of my daughter you wouldn't take the moral highground (if they honour the place noone else will be deprived of a place);
MTC you're making assumptions there about my DD and it's not an issue for me.

Anyway - I've just had a very interesting chat with the admissions director. As far as he's concerned have a cast iron case but I shall have to just see what happens.

[MTSgroupie]

As I've said, I'm a bit hmmm about your attitude. Heading into the exam your thought was if your DD couldn't pass then it was a sign that it wasn't the right school for her. Not only didn't she pass, she missed the cutoff by over 30 marks and at least 118 plus kids did better.

Yes a very bright kid could have failed if they ticked the wrong box here and read the question wrong there but 30 marks is a lot to lose due to mistakes.

Anyway, good luck to your DD.

[seeker]

OP- I haven't read all the thread, but I hope you've sought legal advice. I think you said you were a lawyer, but maybe you need a specialist. I suspect the LEA will be very keen not to be seen to be establishing a precedent, and they will also be worried about opening an appeal floodgate. I wonder whether they might also be worried about judicial review?

[tiredaftertwo]

OP, just wanted to express sympathy. This sounds like a horrible position to be in and I think you have had a bit of a rough ride here.

Many admissions policies are badly written and difficult for many people to understand. Nor are they drawn up according to some higher moral authority, or even logic. And they are sometimes then implemented badly. I don't see why parents should be expected to compensate for those failures on the part of the state to organise a basic service sensibly. All they can do is stick to the rules and not lie.

The OP has followed the rules completely, and even flagged up what appeared to be an error. This is the place she accepted

Really good luck, what a dreadful mess.

[PermaShattered]

Thanks all (although let me say, please, that i didn't come on here to have my attitude itself questioned!!!!)

Anyway, a completely bizarre development:

1pm phone call from Admissions director. I ask him straight:

Has the offer actually been withdrawn? (no straight answer - they're waiting to hear from the 'other' LEA

So, i ask: "Let me get this straight: are you telling me there has been an error but the place is not withdrawn? Or has there been an error and the place IS being withdrawn? Because unless you and I know that we have no idea of the way forward. And if it hasn't been withdrawn she still has her place"

Answer: "Now that is a very good question. Let me send a separate email to [] local authority and ask them.?

YOU REALLY COULD NOT MAKE THIS UP.

Ten minutes later: another phone call. He's found a letter dated yesterday from the other LA telling them that they are withdrawing the offer and parents must be informed - so he's now telling me.

So, of course, i say: "Ok, you're verbally telling me they are withdrawing the offer. I need that in writing....."

What a complete shambles.

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Bloody hell, what a complete shambles!!!

Really, really feel for you and your dd

[tiredaftertwo]

This is disgraceful, beyond disgraceful.

Do you think your LA deliberately delayed by a day to increase the chance of the other LA's withdrawal not standing up when you challenge it? Seems to me the other LA is landing your LA in it too.

Your poor little dd - all she did was go into year 6!

[seeker]

But you also need to make sure that they have reinstated her place at the original school. Because if they give that place to someone else.......