support thread for those of us who have DC submitting UCAS applications in the next few months

[mumoverseas]

Thought we should all get together and calm each other down/mop fevered brows/hand around glasses of wine etc. We've seen other go through it over the past few months and it will be our turn soon.

DS has just got his AS results which were not too bad. AAAB. The B suprised him as it was for maths and we'd expected a B for french which he had not studied for a few years as sat his GCSE early. He says he will re-sit one of the maths modules and one of French ones to get a higher A

He (we!) has been considering various Unis over recent months and has visited 4.
PS is all in hand as is extended project (whatever all that is about) but time is creeping by and not long now til his mid Oct deadline (one of his choices is Oxbridge)

There has been so much in the papers over recent days about the lack of places at University at the moment and stories of how so many good students did not get places as they didn't put 'insurance' choices.

How is everyone else coping and how do we get our children to make realistic choices?

[MABS]

so pleased JGBMum, aaww thanks mos x

[webwiz]

Well done to your DS JGBMum

We are in chaos here at the moment. DD2 got back from the V festival this morning so her soggy stuff is all over the house and DD1 is going back to university tomorrow. She's in a house and the rent started on August 1st so she's decided to go back and do some partying before the term starts . There are piles of things everywhere and she has just informed us that there she doesn't think there is anywhere to park near the house.

[JustGettingByMum]

Thanks guys. DS v happy, but have told him he needs to focus on his driving theory test which is tomorrow.

Webwiz - lol at the piles of clothes, wet and dry. What year is your elder DD going into at uni?

[WhoKnew2010]

mos - good thing. he's done it himself rather than picking it up from cocktail parties. no one expects 17/18 year olds to be whizzes but if they sound as though they are generally interested in their PS they'll be more likely to stick the course!

[mumoverseas]

JGBMum good luck for DS's test tomorrow. A stressful week in your house

DS is struggling to find an insurance choice as most seem to require AAA or AAB and he wants a back up just in case it all goes tits up (my words, he is far more polite!)

Any suggestions WhoKnew?

webwhiz good luck with all the laundry and taking DD1 back

[Ponders]

webwiz, DS1 went back to uni 2 weeks ago, for much the same reasons as your DD - he is paying for the house & his housemates are there so they can have funfunfun

(but also, with luck, he can find a job before the majority arrive!)

[webwiz]

JGBMum DD1 is going back for her second year - it feels weird as last year we had all sorts of lists of what she would need and we took ages choosing which duvet cover she needed and which cutlery set. This year its been a bit more casual and it looks like she has about 20 carrier bags stuffed with things (I know one is her fancy dress outfits - No 1 essential for all students). DH is off for the week and so we are both taking her, even though its only 90 miles it gets a bit boring on the way home if I'm on my own. DD2 is under strict instructions to work on personal statement while we are out and not to spend the whole day uploading photos of V festival to Facebook page - Good luck with your DSs theory test tomorrow.

MOS DD2 is struggling with an insurance choice, after a difficult year she needs something lowish in there just in case but the grades just seem to be going up and up.

Ponders funding the rent and bills for two months before term starts has been a bit of a pain. I think it will work out the same as being in halls over the year but we've had to fund the early rent and deposit. Fortunately DD1 did some work over the summer and she can use that for her social life.

[Ponders]

JGBMum, my DS has his theory test tomorrow too, I missed that yours does! Good luck! (I'm not optimistic, his instructor was supposed to drop off some CD-ROMs last Thu but went away for the weekend & forgot; he finally delivered them this evening about an hour before DS2 went out & we have to leave the house at 10 tomorrow )

webwiz, the early rent money thing is a nightmare. DS1 was supposed to be working over the summer but had to have a knee op early on which prevented that so we have had to sub his 2-months early rent (& there was a 1-month security deposit earlier); once he has a regular job & has got his loan/grant he is supposed to be repaying (we can't afford to pay it as a regular thing so I'd rather get it back & keep it for future emergencies).

[JustGettingByMum]

Ponders good luck to your DS for tomorrow

Webwiz I could potentially be you in 2 years as I have 2 school years between DS1 and DS2, only difference is the clothes are probably bigger and smellier

Well Ds has not revised for his theory test, but has slouched in the sitting room watching the footie. I did try suggesting some back up unis to him (we are all the same, aren't we?)

So some advice please,

At the mo, we are thinking of going for 2/3 in top 10 (def Bristol and Southampton),
then 2/3 in next 10 (based on the Times good uni guide).
Does this sound reasonable? Too cautious? Not cautious enough? What do you think?

[mumoverseas]

JGB just been having the same conversation with DS. Its very difficult isn't it. All the crap/reports in the papers the last few days hasn't helped either
I'd (stupidly) thought that after the AS results we'd have a stress free period for a while which is clearly not the case.

ponders good luck for your DS's test tomorrow. Thankfully that is a long way off for my DS as he only started having lessons last month when he turned 17. He has only just learnt to turn right so thankfully we won't have any tests coming up any time soon that might distract from the UCAS application

[Ponders]

Thanks, JGB! We both have non-revisers then - let's hope they don't get too many stopping distance-type questions...

I'm not getting a lot of say in DS2's choices. We are in the NW and he wants to be min 2½ hours away - hence Durham, York, Sheffield, Edinburgh (Lancaster, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds all too close). I think he should try for LSE but he thinks London is too far & too expensive.

Of those I think some are top 10 & some are next 10 (though we use Guardian, not Times) so similar to your ideas.

WhoKnew's RAE thing is interesting. Sheffield is actually looking pretty good all round for Politics.

[Ponders]

thank you too, MOS

[webwiz]

I think it depends on the sort of offers they are giving JGBMum but I would say DD2 is planning something similar. I think the current defs are Oxford, Bath and York with Nottingham and Exeter floating around. She's got rid of Durham which is miles away and swapped it for Exeter which is miles away as well! I think that would give a mix of offers of AAA, AAB and ABB all being well.

[JustGettingByMum]

I was feeling fairly happy till speaking with boss at work today, his v bright daughter only got offers from 2 of her 5 choices, and some of her friends only recd 1 offer

Perhaps we should jack in the whole thing, let them all take their driving test and then set up a nationwide driving school - Ponders DS in NW, MOS in SE(?) and mine in SW.

[WilfShelf]

Please don't only encourage your DC to choose universities based on newspaper league tables: their methodologies are notoriously problematic - most universities go along with it because to be unrepresented would be worse than a dodgy story, but many if not most are reluctant participants.

If you want to choose a university based on its status, by all means choose a 'top 10' or a 'Russell Group' institution. However, there is so much more to choose, whatever the schools tell you (they, of course, have a vested interest - especially private schools - in selling a story that all their pupils go to the 'best' universities...)

Your kids ought to be going to open days, perhaps with you also, and asking difficult questions, not simply relying on tables and presumptions. So, for example, you need to weigh up the focus on research, the teaching quality and commitment, the resources, the facilities and environment, the particular content of the course (which can be surprisingly different, even for the same subject, at different universities)

The top 10 questions I would be asking of my kids' university choices are:

1. How big are the lectures/seminars/tutorial groups/lab sessions? (a tutorial isn't a tutorial if there are 20 people in the room...)
   

1. Who does the actual teaching (full-time permanent academics with PhDs? Part-time non-contract lecturing staff? Postgraduate students?) Is this true for lectures AND tutorials?
   

1. What kind of expertise do the staff have? Do they have PhDs in the subjects they teach in? How long has that particular course been offered at this university? Are reading lists up to date (ask to see the course materials: if there's nothing published in the last few years, ask if it matters - in history it might not, in virology or international relations, it will...)
   

1. What do current and graduating students say about the course? National Student Survey is probably a much better guide than some news surveys. Can you speak to them? If not, why not? Ask on Facebook if they're not at Open Days...
   

1. What is the overall staff:student ratio? What proportion of these staff are likely to be on research leave in any one year to affect the ratio?
   

1. What kinds of facilities are available to support students' work? 24 hr library facilities? Book spend? Online resources? Skills support? Specialist subject librarians? Laboratory and technical support?
   

1. What kinds of other support are available: financial help? 'Safety net' support for personal crises? Personal tutoring?
   

1. What kind of vibe is there from staff: do they talk direct to applicants, make them and you welcome, have high expectations, challenge them/you? Are they some way in between desperately aloof and couldn't care less, and desperate to keep you in the room?
   

1. What sort of workload are students expected to put in beyond contact time? How is that supported? Is there online/IT support at crucial times?
   

10. What kinds of assessment are there? How quickly are they usually turned around? What kinds of feedback will they get? Who marks the work?

They will HATE you for asking all these questions but if yer paying yer money, you need to know what really sorts sheep from goats, rather than relying on archaic measures of status...

[WilfShelf]

And when I say 'hate' I don't mean 'will prejudice your kid's application': truly good departments will welcome the interrogation, especially from a keen, bright-eyed 17 yo...

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

hello all and good luck it is such a steep learning curve which we did last year
i agree with those who rate the personal statement. we spent ages on ds and did not entirely subscribe to the 'word about town' on how to fill them in...we put more personal stuff than often deemed best and ds got 5 russell group offers

i would say do your homework - see where wants what ...

don't do what you think you ought - let youor child believe in themselves and 'sell' themselves accordingly

reach for the stars - it's worth a shot. you can only fail and then at least you'll know you tried

ds was lucky and got his first choice but it is a bumpy ride

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

interestingly please be aware my ds's lowest offer was AAA and he was pretty much the norm amongst his friends

[Ponders]

I've just been looking through online prospectuses (i?) & the average grade requirement, for Politics/Philosophy, seems to be AAA/AAB - except for Hull, I've just discovered, whose baseline is ABB so that looks like a good insurance prospect!

Wilf, DS2 doesn't actually have a huge lot of choices for what he wants to do so league tables are fairly irrelevant, luckily But thanks for those questions - I will show them to him.

JGB, driving school excellent idea - endless supply of customers, nice new car all the time, & pots of money!

[mumoverseas]

wilf useful info thanks for that

JGB sounds like a plan. I'm SE at the moment but in 2 weeks going back 'home' to KSA where as a mere female I can't drive anyway. I always feel like a learner again when I return to the UK after months away.

[JustGettingByMum]

Wilf wow, that's a huge list, might need to make an indivdual appointment with the tutor to cover them all! Seriously, thats a great list of Q to consider so thank you.

Ponders glad you're plan is coming together. I've been suugesting DS start to look in North East too, poss Newcastle, or Sheffield , OK I know that's not strictly NE, but it IS NE of us.

Posy I agree 100% with your sentiments and I believe students should have lots of opportunities, but tbh the process feels more like the uni choosing the student, rather than the student doing the choosing.

MOS I meant for our respective DSs to run the driving school, the set up costs have got to be less than the debt they will all leave Uni with

[mumoverseas]

morning all
JGB sorry knew what you meant, I didn't make much sense. I just thought well, will we REALLY just let them get on with something on their own without us helping(interfering)

[JustGettingByMum]

MOS - hmm yes we would need to interfere be on hand to encourage!

[WhoKnew2010]

Wilf great advice - from a Uni perspective - I know that when we do open days (three line whip for academic staff) we would happily answer all those questions and would do well on all of them. Personally I would go for Russell Group (but then I work for one ) www.russellgroup.ac.uk/our-universities.aspx

Also surf webpages for Depts your interested in - we all have our up to date publications on there. Sometimes no publications means that someone is a fantastic teacher, sometimes it doesn't ...

• Exeter (Exeter is a strange one - not a great place to be an academic but a high proportion of private schools and high admission grades because popular with students - not sure it is always justified on the academic side of things - but employers still seem to like it and students have a good time)

[JustGettingByMum]

Webwiz missed your post replying to uni q, sorry!

Sounds like your DD has a good plan there,

I think we need to look v closely at offers (and hope they dont change) to ensure we get a good mix.