Dyslexia assessment

[poppincandy]

My ds is having a dyslexia assessment next week, has anyone else had one of these? What happens?

[dyslexic]

''As there is, at the present time, no infallible way of separating the 'dyslexics' out as a special group, either ALL poor readers are dyslexic (correct, in the descriptive sense that they all have difficulties with the written word), or none are"

That is a matter of opinion, not fact, and the very argument that was put forward in the controversial documentary I mentioned in my previous post. Dyslexia is actually a much wider issue than "poor reading". If someone is simply a 'poor reader' but does not have the key characteristics of dyslexia - such as, a poor working memory, directional confusion, struggles to get thoughts onto paper or takes longer than average to do so, inconsistent performance across different areas (i.e. performs very well with certain tasks but struggles with others that most people tend to find easy - hence the relevance of discrepancies in IQ scores), then a clear distinction between 'poor readers' and dyslexics can be made.

In response to BeingFluffy's question, the exact cause of dyslexia is still not known. Much of the evidence points to a heriditary component and brain differences have been identified.

In response to questions about where to get your child asssesed, I recommend Dr David McLoughlin (Chartered Psychologist) at Independent Dyslexia Consultants. I paid 400 for my daughter's assessment (about a year ago). I believe that Dyslexia Action refer people to many different Psychologists and charge about a hundred pounds for making the referral.

[BeingFluffy]

dyslexic I agree with you. Maverick seems to be of the opinion that it is caused by poor teaching (if I have understood her website correctly).

We had my DD's assessment at DA, and you do pay a premium. She also had her teaching there. She can read and write at age 13 but is still dyslexic. We are currently trying a different approach, Tinsley House, which sees dyslexia as a symptom of developmental delay. Not quite sure that applies to DD, but they have diagnosed that her eyes don't work together properly, which can hopefully be treated and she can achieve some improvement.

[mrz]

deevybee.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/causal-models-of-developmental.html

[mrz]

"We have a problem: there is no independent diagnostic test for dyslexia."
D Bishop Professor of Developmental Neuropsychology Oxford

yet people happily pay considerable sums to DA for a label

[PeterPanandWendy]

Butmrz that is one man's opinion.

There are many other opinions and research which says something completely different.


You are doing a disservice to people with dylexia if you smply call a DA assessment a "label."

An ed psych's assessment shows intelligence, strengths and weaknesses, and a person't best learning style.

This is highly useful to a specialist teacher who can then tailor learning methods to that student.

DA fees are not much different to a private ed psychs- about £400. When you work out the number of hours they take to assess, write the assessment, and buy all the tests that are used, you will pay for to have your hair cut or your car fixed.

[PeterPanandWendy]

"you will pay roughly the same per hour to have your hair cut or car fixed."

[mrz]

No PeterPanandWendy that isn't one (wo)man's opinion it is the opinion of many of the leading researchers.
What exactly does a DA assessment do for the child other than identify they have a problem with literacy? Oh wait a moment they had the assessment because they had a problem with literacy ...
Does the assessment with DA (or an EP) "cure" the child's difficulties?
You spend £400 ish and at the end you know your child has a problem with reading (dyslexia) ...

Learning styles have been widely discredited because, we learn differently depending on many things e.g. topic, subject, teacher, we have not got one preferred learning style we use continually for every subject all our lives but learn in an infinity of ways at different stages and for different times. Therefore, one preferred learning style does not exist, and so knowing ones own learning style does not make one a better learner.

"An individual's learning style is not fairly stable across tasks etc. It is topic dependent as Curwin showed (Curwin, 1992) or people just assume it is static and not topic dependent "For the purposes of the study, we assumed that learning styles were fixed and non-contextual" (Brown, 2009)"

"Even a proponent of Learning styles, Dunn & Dunn, says that an individual's learning style is not static "Learning Style changes over time. It is not static. It changes." (SeeChange, 2005)."

[PeterPanandWendy]

mrz I can see there is not much point engaging with you on this when you have such a blinkered attitude to it.

FWIW my DD was assessed. It was extremely helpful because we didn't know what was at the root of her difficulties. Private tutoring and limited support in school enabled her to overcome her difficulties to an extent and she now has a science degree. Without the assessment we would always have wondered what was holding her back, if tuition would help, what her strengths were, and what her potential was in the long term. An assessment helps parents and teachers differentiate between a child with general learning difficulties, who possibly has low academic potential, and those problems that are specific.

There is no cure for dyslexia. My DH is a graduate with dyslexia and a senior manager in a large company. He copes with his dyslexia through strategies. He was diagnosed many years ago- I'm talking over 45 years ago- when help for dyslexics was almost non-existent. Had he been supported then, especially with phonics, his literacy would be better than it is. Thankfully, he now has secretaries and a team to help sort out the spelling. He did though fail all his A levels first time round due to spelling and handwriting problems. I'd like to think that we have moved on since then, and that children are a) identified and b) supported in order to achieve their potential.

I like to think of assessment in the same way that someone is assessed for an operation, or physio- it's no good blindly wading in offering some kind of treatment if they are not functioning properly- first you have to find out what's wrong.

[PeterPanandWendy]

I missed one of your points- dyslexia is not a problem with reading: it's about problems with short term memory, sequencing, organisational skills, time management, and sometimes gross motor co-ordination. Spelling and reading are affected but are not the only problems.

Many children find it helps to have a "label"; they are relieved to know- in their words- that they are not "thick" and that there is a name for their difficulties.

[mrz]

But the assessments they carry out don't tell you what the root of the problem. They assess using standard psychometric tests to measure spatial, verbal, memory, reading and spelling in a standardised way to compare with the normal range of these skills.
The tests don't tell you if your child has an auditory processing disorder or visual perception disorder or neurological factors.
The model they use is outdated in light of current brain research and we have certainly moved on

[PeterPanandWendy]

Have you seen an assessment?
I'm sorry but you are misinformed.

They do in fact measure auditory discrimination and visual perception. Specialist optometrists such as the world- class Dr Clyde Alexander test visual problems and can offer help for remediation.

They also show processing speed which is at the root of many children's and adults' difficulties. They can't show neurological problems because they are carried out by psychologists- not neurologists.

The actual biology of all of this is still being researched, but at least the correct teaching targets these weaknesses, and plays on the strengths someone has.

Did you know that 1:4 male prisoners is dyslexic? Had they been assessed at school and had the right help- perhaps including exam concessions- many of them might not be where they are now.

Surely you are not suggesting the clock is turned back?

[mrz]

Yes I've seen an assessment ... which is why I'm very unimpressed

[mrz]

No I'm not suggesting the clocks is turned back ...far from it, I'm suggesting that DA is outdated, stuck in the past and things have moved on but they haven't.

[mrz]

"The relationship between dyslexia and offending is complex and contentious. A variety of studies have reported higher rates of dyslexia among offenders than in the general population, leading to the argument that undiagnosed and/or untreated dyslexia, resulting in poor educational achievement and lowered self-esteem, makes young people more vulnerable to delinquent behaviour and to the subsequent development of an anti-social, criminal lifestyle. However, these findings are not without controversy and further research is needed. Results depend on how dyslexia is defined and assessed, and the issue is complicated not only by social and educational background factors but also by the generally poor levels of literacy and below average verbal intelligence in offender samples."
from the BDA Joint project with a young offenders facility in Yorkshire

[PeterPanandWendy]

Well, sorry but I don't agree with you about DA.

The BDA puts a lot of money and time into all the latest research and , on balance, I've found them to be very fair-minded with regard to new research and methods.

Also, DA is not the only provider of assessments- any qualified ed psych will do that.
If you have only seen 1 assessment then you can't judge- I've seen dozens- and they all differ because each ed psych picks from a range of assessment tests which are available. Some are more wide-ranging than others.

[mrz]

As a SENCO and a parent I have worked with lots of EPs and I've seen dozens of assessments

[mrz]

and in the majority of cases once the initial relief that there is a reason for their child's literacy difficulties IMHE parents discover that it is just a label not a solution.

[smee]

Thing is mrz, though I agree that the label often gets you not a lot, in other ways it's worth its weight in gold as it allows your child some explanation of why they can't write/ read/ spell, but all their mates can. I know you know this, but without it being recognised, they start to believe they're stupid, but with it (even without the right help), they know there's a reason why they're struggling. That their brains work differently. That they're not stupid!

I have at least three friends who have burst into tears when diagnosed as adults, as they struggled all the way through school. I don't want that for my DS. Assessment's the start of a v.long road, but it's a positive one for us, even if it is outdated (and expensive!).

[mrz]

and I know others (including young men in the youth offenders programme) who say "well I still can't read "
Reading/literacy difficulties need to be identified early (think of all the alarm at the phonics screening) before there is damage to self esteem.

[smee]

Er... isn't that obvious?! Of course it needs to be identified early. Self esteem is critical in learning. If you think you can't do it, you give up, so a 'label' is therefore helpful if only because it lets the individual realise they're not stupid. The fact that more children aren't assessed, and that even those who are, largely aren't helped adequately is shocking. I find it interesting that there's a huge spectrum of dyslexia, so a label of dyslexia can mean something very different for each individual, which makes it hard for schools to cater for. For example, some dyslexics are actually very good at reading, but struggle to write/ spell. Others can't read and there are a huge range of problems amidst it all.

I think what PeterPan's saying about a thorough assessment showing up strengths and weaknesses has to make sense. At least it's a start to help a kid surely.

[mrz]

but it doesn't need a label smee

[smee]

Yes it does if you're the person who's dyslexic and that's my point. Without a label it's too nebulous as you're just told you have problems reading/ can't read. That's basically telling the kid they're thick!

So for example all last year, my son's had comments on his work to to make his handwriting clearer as the teachers can't read it/ to try harder with his spellings. As soon as the magic label of dyslexia's mentioned, the criticism stops, so it's now: 'let's find ways to help you with that spelling/ writing'. It's not that he's being told he has to stop trying, but there's an understanding now that he's not rushing/ not concentrating, but that he's got a brain processing thing going on which makes it a bit harder for him than some of his classmates, so needs some special help. That makes a massive difference both to how he's perceived in the classroom, and to him as he strives to improve his work.

[mrz]

" I find it interesting that there's a huge spectrum of dyslexia"
that is because dyslexia has become a cover all label for literacy difficulties. My own LEA doesn't even recognise the term "dyslexia" and uses SpLD

[mrz]

"As soon as the magic label of dyslexia's mentioned, the criticism stops" not IMHE

[PeterPanandWendy]

It does need a label.

I've worked with- taught- dyslexics of all ages for over 20 years. This includes adults, ex-offenders, children, and high achieving professionals.

I can guarantee that every one was relieved when they had a label for the precise reasons that smee says.

I've seen teenagers cry when they realised they " weren't just thick" and they can then look to role models like Richard Branson, Jamie Oliver and Charlie Boorman who have achieved despite being dyslexic.

I don't know mrz if the only assessments you have seen are those in the state sector done by LEA ed psychs? If so, they are often very, very basic. Ones which I've seen done by private ed psychs are up to 20 pages long- they give huge detail about remediation ( it's part of an ed psych's code of practice that they have to give recommendations once they have identified a problem).

I'm afraid I really don't "get" your reluctance for anyone to have an assessment, and also your rather narrow perception of what dyslexia is. To bang on about it being " poor reading" is missing the point really. I've met dyslexics who are superb readers, but who have problems with time management, study skills, writing reports or essays, and a whole lot more.