Broke up with my wife (access to my 3 kids)

[Daddcares]

Ok so broke up from my wife Not going into too much detail except was few months ago i have a new partner and my wife point blank refuses for me to see the kids 5 year old twins boy /girl and 2 year old boy , unless she (wife) is with me

so im not allowed to take them to the park few min walk from their house or take them for a meal basically anything unless she's with us.

the reason given is she thinks i'm going to take them to meet my new partner (im not and have no intention to do so at the moment)

she wont answer the phone to allow me to speak tot the kids etc

yes im paying maintenance
no never been physical with either the kids or my wife
yes what i have done in ending the marriage is wrong but im genuinely upset every day about missing my kids and lack of contact

any experience /advise please help

Well except that it is much easier to go formal than come back from formal.

I don't see how that is the case.

Are you some F4J type trying to portray MN / DN as full of men haters? Because you've had excellent and very considered responses but you have chosen to flounce over a few posters pointing out the unpalatable truth: your ex doesn't believe a word you say, you lied to her and betrayed her so why WOULD she believe you when you say the kids won't be meeting OW? She just hears another big fat lie.

I would try and have one last, measured conversation where you swear on your gran's grave that you will see the kids without your new partner present. In the same conversation make it clear that you'll be starting legal proceedings if she doesn't work with you informally.

As a lawyer (admittedly not family ) once things are going through your lawyers it is bloody difficult to go back to informal discussion. The closest is normally mediation. Which is why I always tell clients to be very clear that is a leap they are ready to make.

As a first step - can you ask your ex to give you an idea of how long she might want to be present for visits? Can you set a time scale you can both live with - 2 months from now, or whatever?

Of course you have every right to call in the lawyers, but I'd have a few more shots at a gradual change of position first. The suggestion upthread re meeting them with gran or aunt present might be another gradual change.

When you were together, did you spend a lot of time with the three kids on their own - are any of her concerns practical?

Fair enough Libraries

Mrs Jorah He is actually perfectly entitled to introduce them to his DP if he wants and shouldn't have to promise, really. Although I don't think it's unreasonable to not want them to meet too soon.

Most posters get a bit flouncy at posts that tell them how awful they are.

It's interesting to compare the attitudes of posters on his thread to ones on an old thread of mine asking for advice on behalf of my DB. His wife had an affair and walked out and introduced kids to her lover within weeks. I posted asking what he could do about it.

I was accused of being the OW (2 years down the line he has only just started seeing someone), and several people said it was ridiculous and controlling for him even to have concerns about the lover seeing so much of his kids.

OP....it is in the interests of your kids to maintain a relationship with you. If you can't achieve that amicably you need to see a solicitor.

so to clarify

yes i've seen the kids (with my wife ) taken them all out for dinner /lunch on a number of occasions

only mention taking the kids out as there is no way in hell she would allow them in the same town as my new house let alone in the house.

i have tried to do everything since the affair right
i started to pay child support before the csa were involved , i just want ti see my kids without the agg

she has gone off at me in front of the kids on a number of occasions including swearing and talking about ow or new family as she puts it

i have said from day one say what you want to me just not in front of our children

yes i have had a affair and yes i am a scumbag in most peoples eyes however

you dont know the full story

all i wanted was to see if someone on here had experience of a similar situation

Wrong worrydadd most of us can see you are doing your best

You'll get the contact you want eventually. Including overnights and half of holidays etc

Keep a diary of times you've already seen them and the circumstances. Write in it when she's verbally abusive

You can request third party handover to avoid seeing her and do the DC at the exposed to her swearing/shouting at you

Just remain calm. If you can't afford a solicited there's mckenzies friends

Okay so you are getting to see the children which is the main thing. I would keep seeing them as you are, in the presence of your wife for now and just keep trying for mediation.

It may well be that she is not ready for that yet, which is why she hasn't responded. You will need to give her some time and be patient. The children are seeing you so this isn't affecting them. This situation won't go on like this forever and as long as you can be civil together, the children are fine, which is all that matters right now isn't it.

Paying child support before the csa are involved is not some heroic or even noteworthy action. It's something that you should be doing anyway so I'm glad to hear that you are.

How are you paying maintenance? Cash in hand or bank transfers?

Best to do it through the bank so you have evidence.

I personally think given the circumstances things should be as formal as possible.

There is too much emotions flying around because of the affair, new relationships etc... There needs to be someone objective to put things in place so the children get the best possible outcome.

If this was an amicable split there would be a chance at an informal arrangement but as things stand now it's just not going to happen IMO.

I would agree with that. Behind the scenes legal advice is often very valuable in a situation like this.

How is she managing a new relationship without having the children meet him?

If she doesn't respond to the mediators then she will be deemed as being obstructive. The courts won't see it as 'she needs more time'

fairenuff it's not ok to keep 'seeing them as you are'.... She's being verbally abusive to him in front of dc

"How is she managing a new relationship without having the children meet him?"

What a question! Friends may be babysitting, relatives may have the kids, this may be someone she knows from work etc.

What do you expect right now? you shagged someone else while married then left your family for her. give it time

You didn't worry about how much the children needed their father when you were off with OW. It'd be interesting to discover how much of your time your children missed out on when you decided that spending time with OW was more important than them. However, this is apparently something that happened to you- the mischievous god of extra-marital relationships caused you to have an affair, and now you're bothered about your children.

Your posts contain a lot of comments about how gutted you are, and how you want access without your wife around, but I can't see much about how this has impacted upon the children. Could they be scared that you're going to abandon them again if you take them somewhere? Have they lost trust in you? Have they asked that mum accompanies them , as they know they can rely on her to be there for them? Don't underestimate the impact that your actions could have had on the children.

Your children have the right to contact with you. It's probably advisable to arrange contact via email, so that there are written records of what's been agreed. The suggestion of asking a relative to help mediate/ accompany you is a good one, if you have a relative that you trust.

The key point is that it's not about you and want you want, it's about what's best for the children. - which is for them to maintain a relationship with you in a manner in which they feel at ease. You might have to put with feeling awkward for a little while, until you and your ex-wife can work together to come up with a solution.

'she has gone off at me in front of the kids on a number of occasions including swearing and talking about ow or new family as she puts it'

Only a saint or a fool would be able to keep their mouths shut. If my husband did what you have done, I think 'going off' on him would be a mild description of my reaction. No, I couldn't keep my dignity in front of the kids.

It would be unnatural of her to pretend she's ok with your actions. Do you want your kids growing up thinking 'oh, well, if you get cheated on and your heart broken, you just smile and let people treat you like dirt'

Anyway, that aside, you should be able to see your kids. Can you put it in writing that you will not introduce them to the OW for at least 6 months? Then, if you break your word you can both go to the courts knowing exactly where you both stand.

why don't you see the dcs with wife for now? If your lover doesn't like it tough titties

The affair and you seeing the children are two separate issues, but the problem is devastated people are vulnerable and may well lash out, and that's imperfect, but very human.

Have you considered writing a letter to your wife stating that you understand her concerns and agree that it would be most destabilising to the children for them to meet someone else for at least a full calendar year, and that they need to adjust to the situation as it is without further disruption - and adding that you fully understand that this is an admission that doing so would be to place your own needs ahead of the children in an unacceptable way?

You could then put a second paragraph in stating that you feel that continuity and stability are essential to the children's well-being, and that seeing you in a consistent and dependable way will be key to their coping. You therefore suggest that you have them for tea every [Wed or other suitable evening] and every other weekend, weekend of choice to be determined by her. As the 2 year old is still so young you appreciate that it should be just Saturday night at this stage, unless she would prefer the break, in which case you are happy to have them on Friday and Saturday night.

Then reiterate that you want things as calm for them as possible, and you are fully guaranteeing that there will be no contact of any kind with any partner for a full year. You simply want to secure their relationship with you, because you love them, and because you know that it is essential for their future emotional health that you do.

Best case scenario is that she is reassured by this and starts to relax. Worst case scenario is she doesn't, but you have clearly demonstrated good faith and an ability to put the children first should things ever reach a court stage - which obviously is a horrible thing to happen for all concerned.

I'm not touching the affair part. I will just say that walking out on someone who does not meet your needs when there are 5 year old twins and a 2 year old is shitty conduct, and she probably hasn't the spare energy or time to meet anyone's but the kids' right now. I wouldn't either.

But that is separate from the need and right of the children to have a great relationship with their dad, and they need to know that you love them and that you are a part of their lives, and not going anywhere. And she needs, sadly, to find a way to deal with that, whatever her emotions right now. It's going to be agonisingly hard for her, and she will need your patience and reassurance that you aren't going to compound things for her and the kids by bringing the OW into it, but she does need to find the strength from somewhere to do that.

Bring up mediation with her again in the letter, saying you see it as a way to ensure she has her worries heard and addressed in the best interests of the kids, with a neutral third party there to protect her and their interests, and that you hope she's willing to attend on that basis.

Her inevitable answer will be that you weren't thinking of the kids when you decided to have an affair, and she has a strong point. You weren't. But it is what it is and all you can do now is try to exercise damage control.

I wouldn't touch her behaviour in front of the kids, unacceptable as it is. She's not doing it for fun, and the hope is that in time she will stop as she feels less raw. If things have to reach court, then that is when you need to voice it. Meanwhile I would keep a diary and email it to yourself daily with the diary as an attachment, so you can prove you are writing it contemporaneously and not, later, to give yourself evidence that she's unreasonable.

Why are the CSA involved, if you were already paying? They charge the mother for their admin these days, so she will get less than she did before - I am assuming you were paying at least the (low, and a minimum) levels they mandate?

It seems like there is a sensible middle ground here - seek legal advice, but then take a few weeks (or maybe even a couple of months) working with what she is comfortable with for now to see if an informal co parenting relationship can be salvaged at the end of it before actually going down the mediation with intent of going to court route.

Yes she is being unreasonable for denying you unsupervised access, but it's completely understandable why she wouldn't be thinking straight right now, so in the long term I think it would be by far the most sensible thing to give her a little time to to get the head space she needs to think rationally about it before charging in after court action. How you act now will affect the entire of what is left of your children's childhoods.

If it transpires that she just wants to block you out of their lives or will never give you unsupervised contact, then by all means get something official in place.

It's really hard growing up with parents who are at each others throats and can't just have a friendly conversation with one another, and I would be most concerned that immediately going in after court action would be the final nail in the coffin in that respect.

Absolutely agree.

Court action is sometimes unavoidable, but by definition it is adversarial and toxic and couples rarely recover from it. I hope to hell mediation works, once the dust settles.

Your children certainly have a right to a relationship with you if you're not a danger to them, but put yourself in your wife's shoes. You've betrayed her in the worst possible way and you now expect her to believe you when you say you won't introduce them to the OW, of course she doesn't believe you!

You need to be patient, you have after all brought this on yourself. Try to understand why your promises mean shit all to your wife and for the love of god do not tell your wife that OW thinks you should see your DC on your own. Your wife won't want to hear the OW opinions on what is best for your DC, because frankly where was her concern for them when she was having an affair with her partner?

Can you ask that a neutral relative joins you for contact until your wife has come to terms with what has happened, and then if she doesn't come round then try mediation?

I understand your need to be with your DC, really I do, but I also understand why your wife is being difficult, I think many parents (mums and dads) would struggle under those circumstances.

Does anyone ever think about the children?
Not as pawns in a game or possessions but as people who have been damaged for life, by a parent's selfishness.
Mother is the one who has to make all the concessions, but

' im genuinely upset every day about missing my kids and lack of contact. '

If you were genuinely upset you would get back there and try and rebuild your marriage.

Being married isn't always best for the children.

What's the saying? 'Better to be from a broken home than live in one'.

Although I hate the term broken home, it makes sense.