Which crib/moses basket/newborn bed would you recommend to a new parent?

[TinaMumsnet]

We're making plans to test and review newborn beds and we'd love to know which ones you'd recommend.

The first 6 months of a baby's life can be a challenging time for everyone involved, I'm pretty sure we can all agree getting some sleep really helps!

If you've used a newborn bed/moses basket/crib that you'd recommend, we'd love to hear about it. Your comments will help us to create a shortlist of beds to test and recommend to new parents.

Also, if you have any tips on what to look out for when choosing a bed for a newborn, please share them on this thread. We'll include these comments in our buyer's guide

Thanks!

[MattRess]

Whippityweekend

See my previous post too.

Fair points again; apologies for getting a bit exasperated. The UK alone (well, Ireland too) has very tough furniture flammability laws (even if they don't work!). The cheapest way for manufacturers to meet compliance is with flame retardant chemicals. Have a look around the internet - greensciencepolicy.org/topics/flame-retardants/, for example, or wakeupuk.org, or www.chemtrust.org/tag/brominated-flame-retardants/

• and you'll quickly see how toxic these products are.
  
  The way the UK law works is that all sofas/mattresses, etc, sold by a supplier based in the UK must comply. Which means, yes, Chicco Next2Me's products supplied in the UK will be treated differently. However, the law only applies to suppliers, not consumers, so you are pefectly entitled to buy from suppliers based outside the UK who will send them to you, or you could go collect yourself.
  
  An environmental journalist recently described this situation as the "biggest product safety scandal in UK history", and I think he's right. We have the Department for Business refusing to bring in changes to make sofas/mattresses both fire safe and safe from toxins, presumably to protect the flame retardant industry's profits of around £300 a year; that and the many people in the fire safety sector who get hand outs to the same end. Officials at the Department for Business are well aware that their inaction is poisoning just about everyone in the country. What have they done? Nothing, other than make sure the Grenfell Inquiry doesn't know, for probably obvious reasons.

[MattRess]

Sorry, that should read £300 million a year, of course!

[MarshaBradyo]

I had no idea
I bought the standard Snuzpod but did buy an organic / natural mattress from a green UK co.

[BertieBotts]

It's a thread to suggest cots to MNHQ to test, they're going to want to do that with a selection of cots easily available in the UK, not faffing around shipping from other countries.

Incidentally the Waldin one is shipped from Germany but its completely irrelevant, which is why I didn't mention this.

TBH I find single issue posters a bit spammy and annoying. Why hijack every post to talk about a general issue? Make a new thread to make people aware and stick to that.

If flame retardants are in all UK products it also seems a bit hopeless to try and avoid them, especially seeing as your baby is also going to have contact with the rest of the items in your home. If I was in the UK I'd probably conclude that it doesn't matter then, I can't avoid it so why worry?

It certainly isn't putting me off things like buying car seats from the UK when I visit home as they are so much cheaper and the selection (e.g. Joie) is much wider. These chemicals have been in furnishings since I was born judging by the date of the act so I can hardly get worked up about it, it's not like my generation are walking around with two heads.

I'd support a change in legislation if the harm outweighs the benefit but I'm not going to go out of my way to avoid British made products and I think a lot of people feel this way.

[BertieBotts]

In fact I remember when DS1 was a baby specifically being told to check older furniture had this label and to get rid of it if it did not!

[MattRess]

You're probably okay with a UK organic mattress, regarding no flame retardants. But it's not a sure thing. The fact is that it's very difficult to get some natural materials through the UK's furniture regulations without using flame retardants. So, quite a few organic companies cheat in one of two ways. First, they use flame retardants but don't tell you or, if you push them, say they don't know what's in their products, or try to tell you that the flame retardants they use are 'safe' ones (which is what the flame retardant industry always say - until a chemical gets banned when somebody neutral shows it's toxic after all). Second, they don't use flame retardants but they don't comply with the right fire tests. Personally, I don't care if they don't comply with the right tests, as long as they don't contain flame retardants. But it's difficult, for obvious reasons, to get them to tell you which way they're cheating!

Unfortunately - and sorry to be further alarmist - but the flame retardant industry has also been very good at getting its chemicals into products for which there aren't any flammability requirements, like duvets, carpets and curtains.

I know a few companies that I can trust not to use flame retardants but it really shouldn't be this difficult to find out. Problem is, as I said, the Department for Business (and is that really the right department to be handling product safety?) really doesn't give a shit, and won't unless enough people get on their case.

[MattRess]

@BertieBotts

I'm not sure on your point about bringing up issues on appropriate threads. I would have thought an issue is an issue if, as in this case, it pertains to the product being talked about. I agree that not everyone wants to think about it, but they won't anyway. However, there are lots of UK citizens who are not aware of this issue at all (as some have said here), and that is very much down to what suits the UK furniture industry, the UK government and the chemical industry.

It probably won't surprise you to learn that UK baby car seats also come under the UK's furniture regulations and are therefore stuffed with flame retardants. The Baby Products Association have for years been trying to get car seats, prams, buggies, etc, removed from scope. However, they don't really help their cause by not pushing for baby mattresses to be removed too, despite them containing vast amounts of flame retardants. Why? Well, let's just say that the UK furniture-making industry loves these regulations because they're a barrier to trade, therefore giving them a huge home advantage.

Flame retardants starting increasing in products in the 70s and saw a massive increase in the UK with the introduction of the furniture regs in 1988. No, the flame retardant generation is not walking around with two heads but if you do the research, you'll find worrying parallels with increases in a wide range of diseases, including cancers, thyroid disruption, depression, behavoural problems and much more. Children are particularly vulnerable because they're still developing. And if flame retardants were safe how come they regularly get banned when independent research finds they're actually toxic?

You may not personally care but the point I'm making is that if the UK public made a fuss - as they did in the US - then we can change these fire laws, bring them in line with the rest of the world and make the home environment for future kids considerably less toxic.

[starkid]

@MattRess - With regards to the threads original purpose, which crib or moses basket would you suggest?
Mumsnet did ask for suggestions on what to look out for when buying them, which you have certainly done thoroughly, but not offered any specific product recommendations.

[JassyRadlett]

Another vote for the Next2Me. I’m another who had one with my second and wished I’d had it with my first! DS2 was off the charts long and still fit into it at 5+ months, we were able to take it on holiday with us, and he slept really well in it. Being in true arm’s reach made a massive difference.

[smellsofelderberries]

Another one who used the Stokke Sleepi (Mini and cot). Loved that during the night I could have her close to my side of the bed so could comfort/check on her without getting up, but move it away from the bed (because it's on wheels) for naps etc. Also worked very well in the fact that we had a 2 bed flat so could roll the cot from the nursery to our bedroom when guests came to stay.

[MattRess]

@starkid

They asked for any tips when buying these products. Since all of these products come under the scope of the Furniture and Furnishings (Fire) (Safety) Regulations 1988, which means they will almost certainly contain flame retardants, my main tip was not to buy from companies supplying in the UK.

Where smaller items are concerned, you can ask UK suppliers what chemicals they use but you're unlikely to get a straight answer. They'll say they don't know, or that they only use legal chemicals (well, yes, but those always end up getting banned), or claim that the legislation insists on flame retardants (it doesn't). It might be easier to buy from outside the UK over the internet. Visit EU companyies' sites; ask them about flame retardants. As said, the rest of the EU is opposed to flame retardants in products, especially for children, and its flammability laws do not lead to their use.

As for baby mattresses, again ask around in the UK. I know one company that definitely doesn't use flame retardants, which is www.cottonsafenaturalmattress.co.uk - I don't work for them but have kitted out my house with their sofas and mattresses. The owners have gone to considerable lengths and personal cost to raise awareness of the dangers of flame retardants and will happily answer your questions on the subject.

[starkid]

@MattRess - Good info on mattresses but still no specific crib/moses basket suggestions though? Are you a regular user or only talk about mattresses on threads? Bit confused.

[MattRess]

Sorry to confuse you! But as said I wouldn't recommend specifically any UK company for cribs/moses baskets etc, simply because I don't like the idea of babies inhaling and absorbing through their skin flame retardant dust. The site owners here asked for advice on beds, which I've given specifically, then for overall tips, which I've also done.

As said, try the rest of the EU. You could contact EFIC: www.efic.eu - European Furniture Industries Confederation. They are very much opposed to flame retardants in furniture. Speak to/email Roberta Dessi there - she's well informed about the UK's regulations. In fact, EFIC have an outstanding complaint with the European Commission on the grounds that the UK's regs constitute an unjustified barrier to trade (because the UK itself has proven they don''t work). She may well be able to advise on FR-free cribs, etc.

[BertieBotts]

No, it doesn't surprise me because you and jennymor pop up on every single thread discussing car seats, baby pushchairs, mattresses, etc, to post the exact same copypaste spiel about flame retardants and toxins and it all starts to sound a bit obsessive.

Seriously I mean if I was a vegan and I went onto a baby weaning thread and a meal ideas thread and a fashion thread and started banging on about animal welfare I don't think it would go down very well and I would expect to get ignored.

Absolutely fine and relevant to raise awareness of such things, but people are going to switch off when you come onto hundreds of vaguely related threads and drone on and on and on about it. Particularly when the advice is as vague as "Don't buy from the UK". It's a UK site!

I'd be happier to discuss the issue on a standalone thread, otherwise it feels like an unwelcome intrusion.

[MattRess]

The difference is that people have a choice whether or not to bring their children up as vegans. But where furniture is concerned, they have very little choice. Another difference is that everyone's aware of veganism but few in the UK are aware of flame retardants.

Sorry to "drone on and on" about toxic poisoning. Obviously, you don't need to hear any more about it. So what are your kids sleeping on?

[MattRess]

I've taken your advice, and started a separate thread focussing on chemical poisoning of mattresses, cribs, buggies, etc.

[cmr132]

@MattRess - please could you link to your separate thread. I'd like to read more information. Thanks