Can we unlock the schools at start of Feb?

[MeandT]

I'm totally supportive of the lockdown BUT by the end of next week, case numbers nationally will be the same as they were at end of November. Hospital admissions are falling again.

Rather than going back into tiers with the shops and food pubs open (where all the spreading happened in December), can we not issue all the teachers with N95 masks (and vaccines for the clinically vulnerable), make all the kids wear triple layer face masks all the time, and just get on with the important job of educating this country's kids in person? Starting again 1st of Feb.

AIBU to ask if we can send the kids back as soon as we hit the case rate we unlocked at on 2nd December?

IABU= no way, the cases will shoot up too quickly again, even if they all wear masks all day.

IANBU = yes, get them back before half term, the only reason it went nuts in December was because everyone was out Christmas shopping and seeing family.

[starrynight19]

@PerfectPenquins

Honestly I dont want the schools to open properly until we are at a point that its very unlikely to be any further lockdowns if numbers rise. I find the on and off lock down of different variations far more disruptive. I do not want to be getting used to home school then back to school and back to that routine then back to home school in another lockdown etc.

Yes this my own y11 dd is now actually having a consistent education. After four lots of isolation last term she is working much better now as said at her virtual parents Eve tonight.
The constant in out of school was so much worse. We cannot reopen them in the same way.

[MeandT]

@SansaSnark The case numbers have dropped from over 60,000 per day to 30,000 or so in the 13 days from 6th to 19th, so why wouldn't they halve again in the next 13?
Nobody is seeing anyone else unless they are a critical infrastructure worker....right?

Appreciate some regions are really only getting started with new variant growth though, so need to look at more than just national decisions. Whether certain areas are actually following restrictions is also a factor of course. A friend of mine posted gleely in November that 'no-one in Kent was paying any attention to the lockdown anyway'. And look where that got us all

[mrshoho]

It was so reckless how schools and colleges went back in September. Millions and millions of kids crammed indoors with no ppe or adequate ventilation. This allowed the virus to spread efficiently in to our homes and the community. When you think about it in August cases were so low and hospitals were largely empty of covid. The state we are in now makes me wonder if the November lockdown was a waste of time as we did so little to prevent transmission in this large % of our population. All the social distancing elsewhere, closed entertainment, restrictions in all other communal areas and we are now experiencing higher deaths and hospital admissions than in the first wave. I remember healthcare professionals reassuring us that this time around deaths would be lower due to better understanding of the virus and better treatments but it has gone horribly wrong with hospitals overwhelmed in many areas.

[Indecisive12]

Whoever posted about Shakespeares early demise. He actually lived past average life expectancy so it seems that was a moot point. www.plimoth.org/sites/default/files/media/pdf/edmaterials_demographics.pdf

Obviously I’m incredibly bored .

[Drinkarsefeck]

No, schools should only open when it's safe to do so.

[Parker231]

Why don’t people want children wearing masks if it means schools can reopen? Many others have teachers and children from kindergarten upwards wearing them all day.
These countries have handled the pandemic better than the U.K. - life is retiring to normal and it isn’t impacting education.

[HmmSureJan]

@SilverGlitterBaubles

If it goes on much longer they will have to retake the year

Only if the school is providing inadequate provision. Both of my dc - different school and college are completely where they should be academically.

[SittinOnTheDockOfTheBay]

Have you seen the news? We're locking down hard and for longer.

Finally they are talking about quarantining travellers in a hotel.

[lavenderlou]

Schools have been closed for 5 weeks now with minimal change in figures.

On the day schools closed here (Essex), the infection rate was around 700 per 100,000. Within a few days it was up to 1500+ per 100,000 as community transmission, including from school contact the previous week, continued. Now, 4.5 weeks after closing schools and entering Tier 4 restrictions, the infection rate is down to around 400 per 100,000. The November lockdown when schools were still open had a negligible impact in this area but this time the effect has been noticeable and dramatic.

I'm a teacher and I want to be back in school as soon as possible, but I don't want to have to keep closing again to lock down if the numbers just go straight back up again. We need to see the impact of the vaccination programme first.

[Sweettea1]

They need to go back ASAP but it won't be beginning of Feb its not being reviewed until the middle of Feb 15th I believe.

[SavoyCabbage]

Primary children just can't manage masks. They take them off and leave them lying around. Then another child picks it up. They swing them about on one finger when they are concentrating and flick them about like catapults.

Some dc would refuse to wear masks and some parents would refuse to let them.

There are thousands of classrooms with no sinks and there isn't any hot water in most classrooms.

[Letseatgrandma]

Why don’t people want children wearing masks if it means schools can reopen? Many others have teachers and children from kindergarten upwards wearing them all day.

I think Us4Them are largely to blame for this.

Cruel strategies such as muzzling children, or even social distancing were on their list of non-negotiables.

[Parker231]

Primary children can wear masks - they do so in other countries. Countries which have returned to full time in school education.

Why are British children unable to?

[mrstasty]

Yep, good to know that you think.

I'll wait for SAGE, no offence.

[SansaSnark]

[quote MeandT]@SansaSnark The case numbers have dropped from over 60,000 per day to 30,000 or so in the 13 days from 6th to 19th, so why wouldn't they halve again in the next 13?
Nobody is seeing anyone else unless they are a critical infrastructure worker....right?

Appreciate some regions are really only getting started with new variant growth though, so need to look at more than just national decisions. Whether certain areas are actually following restrictions is also a factor of course. A friend of mine posted gleely in November that 'no-one in Kent was paying any attention to the lockdown anyway'. And look where that got us all [/quote]
I mean, I'm seeing 20 kids a week and various other staff in school. We've had three cases in staff so far this term. And the numbers of students in school are increasing daily.

Anecdotally, a lot more people who I wouldn't describe as "critical infrastructure workers" are going to work, especially compared to the first lockdown.

I will admit that by "the end of next week" I was thinking of Friday, so 8 days, but even so, cases haven't really halved. We've gone from about 60,000 to about 37,000. And the rate of decline possibly looks to be slowing down, rather than speeding up. I think, personally, we’ll still be over 20,000 cases in 13 days time, but obviously I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong!

FWIW, I don't think regional decision making will work. I live in Cornwall- our case rate was 18 per 100,000 at the end of November. When Tier 4 was announced, lots of people rushed down here, bringing the new variant with them. By 4th Jan, our case rate was 368 per 100,000.

I think we just have to stick this out for a bit longer. Surely it's worth a few more weeks of pain to avoid another surge in cases and loads more deaths?

[SansaSnark]

@Parker231

Primary children can wear masks - they do so in other countries. Countries which have returned to full time in school education.

Why are British children unable to?

British children probably could wear masks if it was backed up with a proper sanction system, but I don't think mask wearing alone is enough.

Our classrooms are also some of the most crowded (over crowded?) in Europe.

[Elephant4]

Chopping and changing causes greater loss of learning.

They’re just getting used to remote learning. It’s far from perfect but so will going back to chaos and isolation periods also. That is much likely to be worse.

Perhaps if the government had a plan of safe controlled return to schools I might feel more positive about them reopening.

But as things stand now I’d prefer to stick with homeschooling.

[Greenygrape]

@noblegiraffe interesting stats. I wonder why they're more likely to catch it outside home than from an adult that has it in their home. I know that social distancing in schools is difficult but more distanced than with parents surely?

[ImBoredAgain]

They need to go back their education has suffered enough. However there’s no way my 7 year old is being forced to wear a mask all day or sit in a cold room with windows open.

[bellsbuss]

As much as I want my children back in school I would rather wait until the cases come down to a much lower level and more people have been vaccinated. I do not want to have to go through another lock down which is what will happen if schools open too quickly. The reopening of schools and hospitality and other sectors must be carried out at the right time this time. It's bloody awful at the moment but we need to get it right.

[Shieldingending]

Take it the OP hasn’t even considered special schools? Recent DfE data has shown more staff in these than any other sector of education caught Covid, I myself have had my mask ripped off my face by angry ASD children who don’t understand why my face doesn’t look as it should. I totally understand why they do this, but as a vulnerable teacher I was trying to wear a mask to protect myself. There is no way the children with severe special needs in my school will tolerate wearing masks. We have children who spit and bite, again this is absolutely not their fault but is a reason why Covid has spread so quickly in my own school. For my own neurotypical teens I am actually quite happy that their school should remain largely closed, they are getting far better continuity of education now they are learning remotely. Absolutely it isn’t ideal, but it’s better than the three isolations they had in the autumn term term. I believe that a main reason other countries opened schools more successfully is ours is they have a far smaller classes, meaning there is greater potential for distancing within classrooms. Cases didn’t rise dramatically due to restaurants being open in August. Cases rose dramatically from September when schools opened. There is no coincidence there!!

[Northernsoullover]

@Donotdelete

The papers claim that”The UK is leading the world” in their vaccine rollout at the same time thatwe are basically the only country still in lockdown. How nobody has noticed that all the other countries are operating normally while we struggle I don’t know. Our death rate isn’t much lower than that of the US which never properly locked down. Leading the world. Hahaha.

Have you not heard what's happening in Spain?

[HipTightOnions]

@ImBoredAgain

They need to go back their education has suffered enough. However there’s no way my 7 year old is being forced to wear a mask all day or sit in a cold room with windows open.

What safety measures would you accept?

[Greenygrape]

@Lavenderlou our rate hasn't been anything like that to be fair and if anything is far higher now than its been since before lockdown 2. I think that's one thing that causes frustration, while it would be horrible to close schools in just some areas it means everyone is more onboard with it. It would also help monitor the effectiveness of school closures. Our school have had not one covid case in the whole year so its frustrating, especially when the teacher is suggesting I send the kids to a friend's house to do schooling. I think the school is far safer!

[Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum]

You might just about manage to open schools beginning of March if numbers continue to go down and vaccinate ramps up a bit more.

That is still a big fingers crossed though because towards the end of March would be better. However you then start hitting Easter holidays.

Schools will also have to have some new guidance about mask wearing for older kids. Ideally we need to get school staff their first vaccination before they go back. Plus some other changes.