Doesn't it all come down to 2 choices ?

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

A gazillion (and 1) threads about Covid.. but in essence does it not boil down to 2 simple choices.

1. Live a completely normal life, with kids in school /at Uni, people socialising exactly how they wish but knowing that this choice WILL kill a higher percentage of people dead before they otherwise would be..

OR

1. We stop . Just Hunker Down. To the bare minimum through winter. Until the spread is decreased to negligible levels. With the economy / mental health and education taking the hit. For six months. ? But fewer deaths.

As far as I can see. Those are the stark choices.

Which would you do ?

[Wavescrashingonthebeach]

Agreed with @movingonup20

[BunsyGirl]

I know of one person who died of Covid. I know of three that commuted suicide during lockdown. Option 2 would have devastating consequences.

[SheepandCow]

@movingonup20

There is a third way, we support those at significantly increased vulnerability to stay at home, possibly paying for separate accommodation if they are for instance in a multigenerational household. The mortality rate is very low for most people

It's not just about death. There's Long Covid. Many more people face joining the Vulnerable Club because of it. Even if it's not permanent for everyone (which we don't know yet) it's not normality when loads of workers are too ill to work for many months.

How do we protect all the vulnerable? We certainly couldn't have normality if we did, because lots of doctors and nurses and teachers and other essential workers have diabetes or hypertension or are obese.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

@Hardbackwriter

Oh sorry, I thought you were asking a genuine question, I wouldn't have replied if I knew you were just going to preach about how opening anything is murder.

As I said, no country is doing what you advocate - why do you think that is?

I am asking a genuine question. I honestly don't know which way is best !!

[Holyrivolli]

Op Why don’t you hunker down for months on end and avoid this killer virus. Hide away for the rest of your life if you like. No one really cares. The rest of us will just get on with things and try to balance keeping things going whilst trying to avoid the utter economic catastrophe that another lockdown would bring.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

Why are people accusing me of Option 2 ?

I am asking a question. !
But of course we are all conditioned by experience.

My Covid son (didn't know it at the time ) almost certainly killed my 75 year old neighbour , by mowing his lawn and having a cup of tea with him after.. thank god he doesn't realise this , as neighbour died 6 weeks later after 5 weeks on a ventilator. (He doesn't live with me and I will never tell him) ..

[SheepandCow]

@BunsyGirl

I know of one person who died of Covid. I know of three that commuted suicide during lockdown. Option 2 would have devastating consequences.

We urgently need well funded mental health support.

There was a terribly sad story in the news about a man who committed suicide because he was terrified of passing Covid on to his family.

Long Covid has been linked to psychiatric issues (as well as lung and heart damage). The mental and physical health, and economic, impact of letting this virus spread unchecked would be terrible. As would the damage to the economy (with the consequent mental health suffering).

Meanwhile Australia and New Zealand are living mostly normal lives. Schools, offices, events, hospitals, etc all open.

[PremierInn]

I thought We could all swap countries - the old, decrepit, demented and vulnerable go to China ... it's safe there. The young, fit and healthy go to Europe. N and S America could do the same etc. Or smaller scale - Jersey and Guernsey for example

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

I live in a really rural area of Sussex .. yet have lost one 75 year old one side and a 42 year old with 2 young children the other.. (she had no known health conditions... )

Neither are close by.. rural so one about 3 minutes walk and the other about 5.

I honestly don't know which way to go.

[PremierInn]

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Why are people accusing me of Option 2 ?

I am asking a question. !
But of course we are all conditioned by experience.

My Covid son (didn't know it at the time ) almost certainly killed my 75 year old neighbour , by mowing his lawn and having a cup of tea with him after.. thank god he doesn't realise this , as neighbour died 6 weeks later after 5 weeks on a ventilator. (He doesn't live with me and I will never tell him) ..

Oh don't be ridiculous

Do you usually think about all the people you killed over the years with your coughs and colds = their flu and pneumonia?

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

Then fine !

If that's what everyone really thinks should we just power on through and take the consequences ? It's a valid option and will save ££££££ in pension payments.

[SheepandCow]

I prefer Travelodge.

[SheepandCow]

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel

Then fine !

If that's what everyone really thinks should we just power on through and take the consequences ? It's a valid option and will save ££££££ in pension payments.

Might cost lots in sickness benefits though. Potentially long-term.

[Holyrivolli]

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel. Don’t be so transparently faux disingenuous. It was a totally loaded question followed up with oooh fatal virus, oooh social responsibility. You obviously want us to all shutdown again.

Screw young people, screw children, screw people who’ll lose their jobs, homes, screw the vast proportion of the population who are not going to die or suffer this infamous Long Covid that people who can’t now bang on about high death rates have now moved onto as their argument for lockdown. Covid is king.

[mynameiscalypso]

"I don't think there is a 'middle ground' for a virus that's fatal for some."

But all viruses are fatal for some people - some people end up dying as a result of a cold or catching the flu. We live with them.

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

Lockdown will save lives from one virus. But there are causes of death. The young woman who died in my town this week in a car crash could have been saved by lockdown... Or was she cycling to avoid using public transport? It's predicted that cancer deaths will increase due to lack of early diagnosis. Mental health issues.
There are people who are scared to leave their homes. They will likely never go back to their old normal lives.

There isn't s right answer.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

@mynameiscalypso

"I don't think there is a 'middle ground' for a virus that's fatal for some."

But all viruses are fatal for some people - some people end up dying as a result of a cold or catching the flu. We live with them.

This is my EXACT question. ! Ido most people think that on balance it's worth it ?

[SqidgeBum]

A vaccine won't bring immunity to all (if there even is a vaccine. Viruses dont respond well to vaccines).

A virus cannot be eradicated by sitting at home for 4 months.

Anyone who thinks 'banking down's means this will be fixed needs to read some reliable medical sources. Thinking it would work is living in some sort of fluffy dream world where science doesnt exist.

[PhilSwagielka]

@HeresMe

Plus England’s industries are mostly tertiary and those in insurance, law, banking, accountancy, computing, architecture, engineering etc etc worked hard and worked well WFH.

I'm not having a go at you who posted this. But this is what it is , Well as long as the middle class are ok.

Never mind anyone else.

This. A lot of workers don't have the choice to work from home.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

Old and infirm VS the rest of the population. ?

[PhilSwagielka]

@BunsyGirl

I know of one person who died of Covid. I know of three that commuted suicide during lockdown. Option 2 would have devastating consequences.

Jesus Christ. I'm so sorry.

I admit I have had suicidal thoughts from time to time over lockdown, but the only things stopping me going through with it are not knowing how to get my hands on pills that would do me in, and the fact it would upset my mum. There are still days when I wonder how much longer I can hold on though.

(And if anyone's going to call me a snowflake or tell me to be more resilient, fuck off, K?)

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

Who (btw) I understand will also die through lack of prompt hospital help, suicide, and neglect.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

So perhaps THAT is the choice.. !

Long term health issues/death from Covid OR massive mental health conditions resulting in long term health conditions/and or death through treatable health conditions ...

[EasterIssland]

I don’t agree 2 would have less deaths. It might be covid related but not sucidal. Neither hunger related. And neither if we stop any other treatment so that people with covid can survive. Many cancer treatments have been put on hold or no investigated. Is a person with COVIIds life more important than one that loses their job and house and commits suicide ? Or one whose breast cancer goes undiagnosed and dies?

[Firef1y72]

If those are the only 2 choices then 1.
This virus is not going away, its endemic. I am not willing to spend the rest of my life living this half life and condemning my children to it. Yes there are people that are vulnerable to covid but guess what, there are people vulnerable to countless other viruses, and a huge crossover between the 2.

A common cold put my son in hospital with them making the decision whether to ventilate. Maybe we should lock everyone up until the common cold is eradicated so he is kept safe. Or maybe we learn to live with the risk, no way i would keep him confined to the house in case he caught a cold, nor would I expect that everyone else stays locked away to keep him safe. ironically he is currently at less risk than he normally would be thanks to social distancing, and people staying at home if they have the symptoms of a cold.
But still I would continue in the same way as countless other people who have to juggle the risks of life. Just in the same as i would do if I were in contact with anyone vulnerable. I mean no way would I have had contact with my boy's 100 great grandma if I had the slightest symptoms of cough, cold, stomach bug etc.

Sorry but those who wouldn't normally be vulnerable to other viruses will at some point have to mitigate their risks. If i were in the ECV category, I wouldnt have been able to cope with shielding and would have preferred to mitigate risk as much as possible and lived my life as much as was allowed.

I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this but it is genuinely how I feel. I know i don't do emotions or look at things in the same way as NT people.