Right, we all want schools to open to everyone, and to stay open - so what do we need to do?

[cantkeepawayforever]

Whether we are parents, or teachers, or employers, we all want schools to open to all pupils, and then to stay open absolutely reliably for the next academic year.

We want all children to be present, and we want their regular teachers - class teachers or subject specialists - to be in front of them.

The question is how we achieve this. It is very difficult to imagine how schools, especially secondary schools, can be made fully Copvid-safe to prevent transmission within the school..

Therefore, there is a very obvious thing to do - and usefully, it is something we can all do immediately. We have to do our personal best to make sure that Covid doesn't come into the school. If we are parents, we do our best that it's not our child who brings it in; if we are teachers, we make certain as far as we can that we don't bring it in; as interested MN readers we can also do our bit.

I am not talking about shopping washing or permanent isolation. I am just saying that if everyone - absolutely everyone - does their level best to drive Covid out of the community surrounding their school, just by scrupulously following existing rules, it is more likely that that school will stay open.

So, for absolutely everyone in your household, make sure that you:

• Wash your hands properly, with soap, every time.
  
• Social distance properly - measure out 2 metres, and really get used to how far that is. Do this everywhere, with everyone. Step back from friends, remind family.
  
• Wear a mask properly, whenever and wherever 2 m distancing isn't possible, unless there is a reason that you can't.
  
• Teach your child, if of an appropriate age, to wear a mask properly. You have taught your child to wear pants, or a seatbelt. A mask isn't impossible.
  
• Follow the rules about meeting other people - no more than 6 households outside, no more than 2 inside, still following social distancing guidelines if the guidelines say so (or whatever is currently in force where you live)
  
• If you arrive at a place that turns out to be crowded, leave.
  
• If you arrive at a place which doesn't appear to have safe practices in place, leave.
  
• If invited to an occasion that doesn't match guidance, refuse the invitation.
  
• Leave your real name and number for track and trace.
  
• Follow instructions to isolate or quarantine if asked to. Support anyone who has to isolate or quarantine in any way you can, to make doing the right thing easy.
  
• Get a test if needed.
  

- If you are 'stretching the rules' at all, don't do it in the final two weeks before schools open.

If you are already doing all of this, then you could take it further by lobbying your MP for money for cleaning in schools and for increasing school transport to allow SD. But if EVERYONE does their absolute personal best to drive Covid out of the community surrounding their own school, just by scrupulously doing what they are meant to do and ensuring that their whole family is doing the same, then we will all be 'doing our best' and ensuring that schools will be able to open safely and stay open reliably.

[Cam77]

@cantkeepawayforever
“Certainly every child who coughs in my classroom next term is going home to be tested. Why on earth wouldn't I send them home?”

China had this stringent no mess approach to school children back in May. Face masks were also mandatory for around a month. Along with other measures it worked, as the entire country is now virtually case free (or 30-50 a day of late, mostly in just one or two provinces) and therefore mask free. We have about 30-100 times that number of cases in a population 1/20 of the size.

[MissEliza]

@GalesThisMorning absolutely yes. I can honestly say my family and I have tried our best. I get exasperated by others, especially in high risk groups, who don't. We've had many elderly father to stay twice since the rules changed and I'm starting to think he's a risk to us as he acts like nothing's changed- no handwashing, keeping apart from others and he even shook our neighbour's hand the other day! Adults need to be doing whatever they can not to catch it.

[Yetiyoga]

it actually just baffles me when I still see poster's on here saying 'how are you supposed to know the difference between the coughs' like how obvious do the gov need to make it that testing is readily available? There are SO many drive through places and plenty of home testing kits. I had a test at 7:30pm ish and results by 10am the next day. That would be only 1 day off work!

[Morfin]

@ineedaholidaynow

The OP's post is pretty much the guidelines and is what people should be doing.

So which bit is unrealistic *@Morfin*? Because if people don't do this then schools won't be functioning very well at all

Asymptomatic transmission will mean that once you put 1000's of people in poorly ventilated rooms with no PPE and no SD rates will rise regardless of what you do outside.

Plus you are expecting parents who don't /cant/won't provide basic stationary, clean clothes, healthy food to follow these ever changing rules. If schools rely on the ops plans to stay open then we are all going to hell in a hand cart. LegoMaus plans would give schools a chance to open, continuing as if we can open schools as they were before covid is delusional. The definition of madness is doing the same things again and again and expecting different results.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

Coronavirus is here to stay. Children's education cannot suffer any longer. Apart from the human right to an education, a poor education has public health implications. We must stop this mindset that COVID trumps everything else. Our dcs have already sacrificed a lot. It's time to put them first.

Repeating this ad infinitum on every thread will not change the fact that this is a highly contagious disease. With no sensible mitigation in place, and especially with parents sending ill children in because they can't afford the time off work or 'they've missed so much time already' that one case in school will spread to many and lead to widespread disruption of education.

Why aren't UsforThem campaigning for extra funding for cleaning supplies /smaller class sizes / better support for remote learning when local closures happen?

[MissEliza]

Good point @Yetiyoga

[Fedup21]

If schools rely on the ops plans to stay open then we are all going to hell in a hand cart. LegoMaus plans would give schools a chance to open, continuing as if we can open schools as they were before covid is delusional.

I agree. It is delusional.

But as the government won’t fund anything different happening, schools will be closing left tight and centre.

[Cam77]

@ChaBishkoot
“Our schools are opening fully from Pre K- Grade 2. Teachers masked. Social distancing. Bubbles. Lots of hand washing. As stated above.

Then Grade 3-8 will be doing 2 days on, 3 off and then 3 days off, 2 on the following week. And doing online hybrid learning.

This is all till the end of October when these will be revisited.”

Where abouts are you?

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

We can all do whatever.

But schools will close when staff go off sick. They can’t keep open on H and S grounds if there are insufficient staff.

We can all do whatever. But it’s a virus. It’s main purpose is to infect as many people as possible. And the current guidelines for opening schools esp secondaries will ensure it absolutely fulfils it’s purpose as much as possible.

It’s not the teachers’ fault
It’s not the LEA’s fault
It’s not the school’s fault if they refuse to keep a kid at school with a temperature and your boss is unhappy.

It’s the government’s fault. Remember that when schools are closing left right and centre because they couldn’t be bothered to make it safe for your dc and the staff. Tell that to your boss when you have to leave to pick up a sick child.

[canigooutyet]

Imagine all the parents ring their boss saying I can’t come in due to X having a cough. It’s just not viable

This is what key workers have been doing since lockdown. They/someone in the home has a temp/cough and they cannot go in. Wait for tests etc. Same with colleagues who they'd been near whilst working. Companies having skeleton staff will be here for a while.

[Cam77]

@LegoMaus
“An average-sized primary (2 classes per year group) would need 14 classroom-sized portacabins
£3.8bn (the cost of Eat Out To Help Out) buys a heck of a lot of

Just feels like most governments, especially those in the West (with the UK about the worst) are just flailing about aimlessly. They are totally lost.

[Nobodyputsdaisyinthecorner]

Totally agree with you op. I really want to feel confident to send my kids back despite us all having underlying issues.

I trust the school to do their best. It’s the many classmates I see having socially distanced play dates and trips to the local pub and days out with several diff groups each week that make me nervous.

[Saucery]

I don’t see why the focus is continually on schools and teachers with slogans like ‘Education is a Right’ .
Yes, it damn well is. By not observing the guidance outside of schools people are putting the education of my child at risk. Not the teachers, not the local authority, not the Unions. You - if you’re not following simple instructions to limit the spread of a virus. And they are simple. The virus doesn’t give a toss if you’re in a packed pub or your friend’s garden “because Boris said it was ok”. It will spread if you get close enough. So grow up and take this right to education seriously, if that’s what you really care about.

[Ohchristmastreeohchristmastree]

I was listening to a podcast the other day that was talking about and doing less sensitive tests but more often.

It looks like there are tests available which although aren’t very accurate they will pick up quite a few cases. The theory was that these tests could be used on a daily basis for children going into school and if they test positive they have a few days off.

These tests gave instantaneous results so the child could stay at home for a couple of days while they await the proper test results.

Either that or train dogs to sniff out Covid apparently they have been sniffing it out at 95% accuracy they could literally go around schools where there is thought to be clusters in a matter of minutes!

[canigooutyet]

*If you arrive at a place which doesn't appear to have safe practices in place, leave.

• If invited to an occasion that doesn't match guidance, refuse the invitation.*

If I told my teen this he would say awesome, no school.

[Fedup21]

@HasaDigaEebowai

Parents need to accept the necessity of wearing masks in schools

Do parents really have an issue with this? I know I certainly don't

There have been numerous posts on here recently with parents fuming at the suggestion of their child wearing a mask. People were saying it was muzzling them, stopping them breathing, violating their human rights etc and they would rather home school.

There seem to be a swathe of parents rabid about their children going back to school exactly as it was before Covid. As nothing else has returned as normal, this seems bizarre to me. It will just mean things will probably go very badly wrong, very quickly-as that article about Israel clearly shows.

[ineedaholidaynow]

Oh absolutely @Morfin schools needs so much more, but if everyone who can, do their bit, it will help. If everyone carries on breaking the guidelines then schools probably won't even have the opportunity to open as areas will be in perpetual lockdown.

Definitely the ways schools are set up need to be changed and hopefully the Government will eventually see that and finally put funding towards it, because schools can't do anything without additional funding. It is crazy that they have not received anything to help in this crisis.

The problem with portacabins etc is that there are not enough to go around and many schools won't have anywhere to put them, and it is all very well separating out classes if it was possible, but where are the adults to supervise/teach these children.

Blended learning, especially for secondary schools is probably the way forward. Being in school on a rota and those not in school learning remotely. This will need funding especially in respect of technology. Not the mythical laptops provided by the Government.

[Illdealwithitinaminute]

One thing- someone said public bus companies should put on more school buses- most of ours locally are not public companies, they are private businesses and are not going to be able to sustain an economic model of twice as many buses and drivers for the same (or less if fewer pupils go) price. I'm already being asked to pay for the autumn term bus and I have no faith my dd will be going on it longer than a month because that's how long it will be before everything shuts down!

[Cam77]

To me it looks more and more like Western nation’s should have followed China’s lead and imposed a total lockout of international travel into their country. They’ve had this going on in China for months now. IE You can leave your country but:
A) flights back into your country will be extremely limited.
B) government observed two week quarantine, none of this self-reporting nonsense

B would not be that hard to implement as only a tiny number of people would be flying into Country X given limitations of A) and B).

Downside would be the airlines and travel agents even more screwed than currently are. Upside is each country can fight this dam thing on their own terms without people spreading it about everywhere. And all other industries would be doing a damn sight better than they are now. And schools reopening would be looking up. A fair few countries, take Ireland where I am, have nearly hit it on the head only for the 50,000 in-flyers each week from hotspots to get it going again. Ridiculous.

Half measures and softly softly approach against this pandemic only work if you have a government which are incredibly competent and on the ball. Most countries don’t have that, certainly not Britain.

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

Most schools will do their best, they all will.

But the guidelines are crap and unsafe. So even if they do their best it isn’t really going to make any difference.

[canigooutyet]

I thought that masks were advised against in the government guidelines in schools?

And the suggested shield for staff, they don't offer full protection because the nose and mouth aren't covered. Yes if someone coughs/sneezes most of the spray will be stopped, but not all. Remember for the masks to be effective there can be no gaps.

[Saucery]

The model for school transport in my area is if it’s not financially viable then the service may be cancelled. We’re not in an area where schools are scarce, so the Council don’t have to contract the private companies at all. They charge a hefty amount as it is, based on full capacity.

[Morfin]

Completly agree @ineedaholidaynow
Blended learning, especially for secondary schools is probably the way forward. Being in school on a rota and those not in school learning remotely. This will need funding especially in respect of technology. Not the mythical laptops provided by the Government. this could definitely have been funded instead of giving adults free meals.

[itsgettingweird]

Totally agree with you.

However I fear it's a losing battle. Recent thread i started and people are clambouring over themselves to excuse why someone didn't follow guidance and SD and coming up with every excuse going. Even though I said they knew - because I told them!

Apparently everyone's wants trumps everyone else's. I said it scares me this is what's making people stop. Who will follow guidance if it disadvantages only those who follow it.

Schools do matter. Obviously the economy and jobs matter but they go hand in hand and one can't really exist without the other.

[Bananabread8]

@Yetiyoga

it actually just baffles me when I still see poster's on here saying 'how are you supposed to know the difference between the coughs' like how obvious do the gov need to make it that testing is readily available? There are SO many drive through places and plenty of home testing kits. I had a test at 7:30pm ish and results by 10am the next day. That would be only 1 day off work!

No it wouldn’t. Don’t give false info. You would also have to wait for the result to be processed. So for every child at school that has a slight sniffle in winter. That means a lot of testing PER school. Can imagine.