Right, we all want schools to open to everyone, and to stay open - so what do we need to do?

[cantkeepawayforever]

Whether we are parents, or teachers, or employers, we all want schools to open to all pupils, and then to stay open absolutely reliably for the next academic year.

We want all children to be present, and we want their regular teachers - class teachers or subject specialists - to be in front of them.

The question is how we achieve this. It is very difficult to imagine how schools, especially secondary schools, can be made fully Copvid-safe to prevent transmission within the school..

Therefore, there is a very obvious thing to do - and usefully, it is something we can all do immediately. We have to do our personal best to make sure that Covid doesn't come into the school. If we are parents, we do our best that it's not our child who brings it in; if we are teachers, we make certain as far as we can that we don't bring it in; as interested MN readers we can also do our bit.

I am not talking about shopping washing or permanent isolation. I am just saying that if everyone - absolutely everyone - does their level best to drive Covid out of the community surrounding their school, just by scrupulously following existing rules, it is more likely that that school will stay open.

So, for absolutely everyone in your household, make sure that you:

• Wash your hands properly, with soap, every time.
  
• Social distance properly - measure out 2 metres, and really get used to how far that is. Do this everywhere, with everyone. Step back from friends, remind family.
  
• Wear a mask properly, whenever and wherever 2 m distancing isn't possible, unless there is a reason that you can't.
  
• Teach your child, if of an appropriate age, to wear a mask properly. You have taught your child to wear pants, or a seatbelt. A mask isn't impossible.
  
• Follow the rules about meeting other people - no more than 6 households outside, no more than 2 inside, still following social distancing guidelines if the guidelines say so (or whatever is currently in force where you live)
  
• If you arrive at a place that turns out to be crowded, leave.
  
• If you arrive at a place which doesn't appear to have safe practices in place, leave.
  
• If invited to an occasion that doesn't match guidance, refuse the invitation.
  
• Leave your real name and number for track and trace.
  
• Follow instructions to isolate or quarantine if asked to. Support anyone who has to isolate or quarantine in any way you can, to make doing the right thing easy.
  
• Get a test if needed.
  

- If you are 'stretching the rules' at all, don't do it in the final two weeks before schools open.

If you are already doing all of this, then you could take it further by lobbying your MP for money for cleaning in schools and for increasing school transport to allow SD. But if EVERYONE does their absolute personal best to drive Covid out of the community surrounding their own school, just by scrupulously doing what they are meant to do and ensuring that their whole family is doing the same, then we will all be 'doing our best' and ensuring that schools will be able to open safely and stay open reliably.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

If everyone 'does what is right for them' ... this will be why it will take longer. With a pandemic you need to do 'what is right for the community you live in' minnieok

I am truly sorry for the people suffering from poor mental health. however the Virus gives not a shit about it...

Until people can get their heads around the fact that nothing will improve until they stop thinking SOLELY about their own welfare and start thinking about the welfare iof everyone they come into contact with.. This will continue.

[neutralintelligence]

All of what the OP suggests, plus reduce some of things that are allowed but are high risk (any non-essential indoor activities, especially those that are not healthy anyway, like drinking) and ideally greatly reduce non-essential travel to countries with on-going outbreaks (holidays will still be there next year, but a year of missed school is really going to damage the older pupils' life chances).

[Aragog]

I forget to make the first line quote bond.
My response is after that

[Aragog]

I thought they would only close a bubble; that's one of the reasons for bubbles

On some schools those bubbles are huge.
In many cases, in both primary and secondary, teachers are working between several bubbles.

I work in an infant school, so aged 4-7, with no expectation of social distancing.
We have class groups but year group bubbles - class bubbles just aren't possible due to the size of our school.
So the bubble is 90 children plus staff.

Due to the nature of my job I will work across all classes and bubbles - so my bubble is 270 children.


My friend works in a sixth form college. His year group bubbles are over 700 students. He works between two bubbles - around 1500 students.

[StealthPolarBear]

Thanks for the replies.

[Lockdownseperation]

@StealthPolarBear

And yes why can't teachers wear visors? I know they're not perfect but they must afford some protection to the teacher.

Visors prevent transmission through the eyes. You are much more likely to breath in corona virus then get it splashed into your eyes. Wearing a visor without a mask is like wearing a bobble hat with your bikini in winter to keep you warm in winter, it’s going to offer you a bit of protection but there are so much better things to do first.

[HipTightOnions]

if that means meeting more than 2 households inside so be it. I will do what's right for my circumstances

...and fuck everyone else, presumably.

[Lockdownseperation]

@MissEliza

You mean people aren't doing all that already?

From what I see most people aren’t following the guidelines

[ineedaholidaynow]

And do your adult children meet up with anyone else @minnieok?

[Racoonworld]

@minnieok why do your adult kids need to meet 5 households inside for their ‘mental health’? That’s not just slightly breaking the rules, it’s so irresponsible to let this happen! Why not meet the 5 other households outside??

[mosquitofeast]

do you have learning difficulties?

[minnieok]

Not everyone has kids. I'm far more concerned about the mental health of my adult kids and if that means meeting more than 2 households inside so be it. I will do what's right for my circumstances, my kids are being taught 100% online next term anyway. We are all technically different households, meeting next weekend technically 5 separate households but we all work from home.

[mosquitofeast]

@StealthPolarBear

And yes why can't teachers wear visors? I know they're not perfect but they must afford some protection to the teacher.

teachers can wear visors, unless the school forbids them to

[Bupkis]

We need an effective testing system
We need to stop telling everyone to 'get out there'
We need to allow parents of children who have medical vulnerabilities to keep their children off without the threat of fines (if shielding measured remain paused or If child is not on list)

[Piggywaspushed]

Parents also need to NOT do this!

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/anger-child-goes-gloucester-nursery-4397248

[Piggywaspushed]

I am sure part of that is supply stealth , but also the guidelines distinctly say 'no extra PPE'. According to PHE , PPE includes mask, gloves, other protective gear, anti bac wipes, hand gel and soap! That is why none of this is funded : it is all perceived as extra stuff we shouldn't really need.

I haven't seen any convincing findings that visors, worn by themselves achieve anything. They would only protect us if we were doing aerosol type procedures (unlikely!)or of someone spat at us. Thank fully that is rare in most environments.

[Piggywaspushed]

At the beginning of all this the government and various lobby groups always used to go but Denmark.... It is noticeable that they have now stopped doing this. They sued that just to tell us other countries were not so cowardly but now, now that we are faced with a return they have realised they do not want to copy (fund...) any of the cautious and sensible measures being taken in Denmark, Germany, Japan.

Our version of return looks a bit more like Israel's', or Georgia's, unfortunately...

I am concerned that there no longer seems to be any desire or willpower amongst lots and lots of parents to control their children's behaviour in the community. If there is one contribution parents need to make that is it. Unfortunately, many still believe children do not spread the virus and , unless and until they can see the direct consequences of teacher illness and absence (or are a school worker or have close relatives who are) perhaps don't worry or care too much about school staff illness or absence.

My teenager is massively controlling his social interactions (he is not a go out type anyway to be fair) but he is one teenager amongst a sea of those who aren't. I can see why people think 'what's the point keeping them in if they are going back to schools soon anyway'...I don't agree but I can see the thinking. I also know that lots of parents just don't want disharmony.

[StealthPolarBear]

And yes why can't teachers wear visors? I know they're not perfect but they must afford some protection to the teacher.

[labyrinthloafer]

One other thought - if testing capacity will soon be 500,000 per day - why not insist that all pupils and teachers are tested 1-2 weeks before school returns. It won’t be foolproof but could prevent a lot of virus transmission

I can see the appeal but it just is a massive sledgehammer to only very partially crack a nut, and is really not possible anyway.

With over 3million school pupils, you would have to stop testing all the people who you know need tests and divert them.

There's no shortcuts on this, we need distancing, hygiene, small groups, track and trace (not the one we have now, one that works) and tests for symptoms.

[StealthPolarBear]

@ceeveebee

Totally agree

Unfortunately the main problem in my area is teenagers who are of course invincible and don’t actually care if schools all open or not...

One other thought - if testing capacity will soon be 500,000 per day - why not insist that all pupils and teachers are tested 1-2 weeks before school returns. It won’t be foolproof but could prevent a lot of virus transmission

This is surely a very good idea

[BluebellsGreenbells]

I had a test at 7:30pm ish and results by 10am the next day. That would be only 1 day off work!

All that tells you is you didn’t test positive at 7:30 am

What it doesn’t tell you is you could be developing the disease and it can take 5/14 days for you to test positive or show symptoms

[JulyBreeze]

Yes the minister seems to only know about primary schools methinks.....

[pontypridd]

Don’t include me in your ‘ALL’, OP.

[echt]

Interesting reading:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/05/covid-19-may-spread-more-easily-schools-than-thought-report-warns

[Morfin]

@Redolent

“ Within a school, of course, you're not with people that you don't meet normally, you see these same children every day, so there are different circumstances ——“

Can someone please explain to me how familiarity with a group of people (or lack thereof) affects transmission of the virus? What does this have to do with anything?

Actually I think it's worse. On a bus you might see a stranger who sneezes over you once. One viral load of Corona. In a school you sit next to one person with Corona who sneezes over you every day for 10 days. He also sneezes over you friends who also catch it. These friends continue to sneeze over you for another 10 days. They also spread it so the people in front and behind you also sneeze on you. How's your viral load now?