Right, we all want schools to open to everyone, and to stay open - so what do we need to do?

[cantkeepawayforever]

Whether we are parents, or teachers, or employers, we all want schools to open to all pupils, and then to stay open absolutely reliably for the next academic year.

We want all children to be present, and we want their regular teachers - class teachers or subject specialists - to be in front of them.

The question is how we achieve this. It is very difficult to imagine how schools, especially secondary schools, can be made fully Copvid-safe to prevent transmission within the school..

Therefore, there is a very obvious thing to do - and usefully, it is something we can all do immediately. We have to do our personal best to make sure that Covid doesn't come into the school. If we are parents, we do our best that it's not our child who brings it in; if we are teachers, we make certain as far as we can that we don't bring it in; as interested MN readers we can also do our bit.

I am not talking about shopping washing or permanent isolation. I am just saying that if everyone - absolutely everyone - does their level best to drive Covid out of the community surrounding their school, just by scrupulously following existing rules, it is more likely that that school will stay open.

So, for absolutely everyone in your household, make sure that you:

• Wash your hands properly, with soap, every time.
  
• Social distance properly - measure out 2 metres, and really get used to how far that is. Do this everywhere, with everyone. Step back from friends, remind family.
  
• Wear a mask properly, whenever and wherever 2 m distancing isn't possible, unless there is a reason that you can't.
  
• Teach your child, if of an appropriate age, to wear a mask properly. You have taught your child to wear pants, or a seatbelt. A mask isn't impossible.
  
• Follow the rules about meeting other people - no more than 6 households outside, no more than 2 inside, still following social distancing guidelines if the guidelines say so (or whatever is currently in force where you live)
  
• If you arrive at a place that turns out to be crowded, leave.
  
• If you arrive at a place which doesn't appear to have safe practices in place, leave.
  
• If invited to an occasion that doesn't match guidance, refuse the invitation.
  
• Leave your real name and number for track and trace.
  
• Follow instructions to isolate or quarantine if asked to. Support anyone who has to isolate or quarantine in any way you can, to make doing the right thing easy.
  
• Get a test if needed.
  

- If you are 'stretching the rules' at all, don't do it in the final two weeks before schools open.

If you are already doing all of this, then you could take it further by lobbying your MP for money for cleaning in schools and for increasing school transport to allow SD. But if EVERYONE does their absolute personal best to drive Covid out of the community surrounding their own school, just by scrupulously doing what they are meant to do and ensuring that their whole family is doing the same, then we will all be 'doing our best' and ensuring that schools will be able to open safely and stay open reliably.

[Oblomov20]

I agree. Within reason, I would do just about anything asked of me, to ensure Ds1 and Ds2 go back in September, and it stays open.

I assume most parents would.
Do why aren't we being told what? Or is it still too early?

[cologne4711]

I agree OP - very sensible suggestions.

To the person in the US - why do you need masks outside (unless eg in a queue)?

it will only take two cases to close a school That's still not very likely, given there had only been four cases in total in my council area in four weeks the last time I looked.

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

The one irrefutable fact that the 'Schools must stay open' brigade can't seem to get in their heads is that once the R gets over 1 then the virus will spread rapidly.This is what is happening because people ARE NOT following the rules.

Add schools all open into that mix (especially public transport) then it's all going to take off again.

No viral pandemic has EVER been controlled because people are bored/fed up/need childcare/need to earn.

There will be three choices.

1. Stick to the rules to try and control it. (That's not working obviously)
2. Accept that the price of schools open will be a rapid increase in infections and deaths.
3. Lock down properly with sanctions for rule breakers.

So really only 2 or 3.
So a lot of deaths or a lot of angry poor, unemployed people with a huge percentage of children from backgrounds of poverty, neglect or just plain unable to home educate /get educated remotely missing out on school for months.

I wouldn't want to be making that choice.

[Yetiyoga]

I thought the same @BigChocFrenzy!

[Fedup21]

I thought they would only close a bubble; that's one of the reasons for bubbles

The word Bubbles imply a level of safety that doesn’t exist. My primary is operating year group bubbles of 90. My DC school is operating year group bubbles of 270. Yet all staff can teach and work across ALL bubbles. If that bubble closes, it will have pretty far reaching consequences with regards to children and staff having to stay off.

[mrshoho]

Agree to all this.

Can I add, please ensure when returning from your holidays you follow the quarantine rules if they apply. Don't be that asymptomatic spreader.

Please allow teachers, staff, pupils to wear masks in secondary schools where SD is not going to happen. I'd go further and provide visors and desk screens to teachers.

In large secondaries I'd want to start with halving the numbers and having a 1 week in 1 week out.

Public transport companies to lay on extra buses/trains morning and afternoon. If they just go back to previous levels there's going to be kids crammed in.

[mosquitofeast]

@cantkeepawayforever

well, you are wrong, it will only take two cases to close a school.

To be fair, that isn't the case. First case in a bubble affects only the close contacts - so a small number of that class / bubble. second case brings in public health, who may decide on a wider closing (of class, year group or school), but may not.

but in a secondary school, once a bubble closes, all the staff who have been into contact with that bubble also have to go home, meaning there will not be enough staff to keep the school open.

We have calculated that it might be possible to get away with closing 1 or 2 key stages, rather than all 3, but that is not guaranteed.

[Yetiyoga]

I wonder why they won't implement temperature checks on arrival. Surely a lot less disruptive than bubbles having to constantly isolate?!

My family member teaches in Thailand and they do temp checks twice a day. That would rule out parents sending kids in with a temperature at least?!

[Shalliornot]

It sounds like there is a big issue with people not getting tested when they have symptoms and people not engaging with track and trace. Making the point that these are key civic responsibilities seems to be really important.

In an ideal world the government would provide proper financial support - so full pay and guaranteed job security for anyone asked to isolate - to facilitate this but I don’t think this happens at the moment?

[mosquitofeast]

it will only take two cases to close a school That's still not very likely, given there had only been four cases in total in my council area in four weeks the last time I looked.

but if there is one in a school, there is likely to be two

[cantkeepawayforever]

but in a secondary school, once a bubble closes, all the staff who have been into contact with that bubble also have to go home, meaning there will not be enough staff to keep the school open.

Read the latest guidance Prevention, section 8 Although I agree entirely with what you say as being what common sense would suggest, it isn't what the guidance currently says:

"Based on the advice from the health protection team, schools must send home those people who have been in close contact with the person who has tested positive, advising them to self-isolate for 14 days since they were last in close contact with that person when they were infectious. Close contact means:

• direct close contacts - face to face contact with an infected individual for any length of time, within 1 metre, including being coughed on, a face to face conversation, or unprotected physical contact (skin-to-skin)
  
• proximity contacts - extended close contact (within 1 to 2 metres for more than 15 minutes) with an infected individual
  
• travelling in a small vehicle, like a car, with an infected person"
  

Staff would only be sent home if they were direct close contacts or proximity contacts within this definition.

This is one way in which the guidance has changed since the partial wider opening in June.

[MissEliza]

Coronavirus is here to stay. Children's education cannot suffer any longer. Apart from the human right to an education, a poor education has public health implications. We must stop this mindset that COVID trumps everything else. Our dcs have already sacrificed a lot. It's time to put them first.

[ineedaholidaynow]

I don't think people realise how few cases it could take to close a year group/school. And it probably won't be just the once it will likely be a continual cycle of opening/closing if people see breaking the rules. This would be an absolute disaster for Y11 pupils.

And for all the people on MN who have woken up and smelt the coffee in respect of the number of vulnerable children there are in this country and how important school is for them, not just educationally but also as their safe place, please remember how important it is that they are in school.

Yes technically schools have been open to them during lockdown but only about 10% came into school, so teachers need to see the other 90% and the other children who have become vulnerable during lockdown.

[mosquitofeast]

Well, a lesson is 50-120 minutes long, so any staff that have taught that class would have been close for more than 15 minutes.

[KrabbyPatties]

Take temperatures before you leave home on the morning

[ChaBishkoot]

Why do we need a mask outside? Because it is a low cost intervention that dramatically reduces transmission. Now it’s even more important indoors but it is not always possible to maintain separation outdoors. And constantly taking on and off your mask is not good practice. So if you are walking to a bus stop and you aren’t masked, you wear the mask, get off two stops later, take it off, that’s not good hygiene. It’s better to just be masked. It’s also simply easier to enforce than the rules here. For a while in the U.K. wasn’t it the case that if you went to M&S to buy the ingredients for a sandwich you needed a mask but if you went to Pret to buy a sandwich you didn’t? This is the stuff that causes confusion.

I have to say in my very very large city (one of the largest in the US) I have seen less than ten people unmasked in the last month.

All our kids have been masked with zero issues for over two months and have been playing for hours in the park. My preschooler walks to school for summer camp in his mask but then takes it off there (since he’s under 8).

[cantkeepawayforever]

@MissEliza

Coronavirus is here to stay. Children's education cannot suffer any longer. Apart from the human right to an education, a poor education has public health implications. We must stop this mindset that COVID trumps everything else. Our dcs have already sacrificed a lot. It's time to put them first.

Of course. As I said in the first post, everyone - teachers and parents alike - want schools to be back full time, for all children, and to stay open in full throughout the whole academic year.

To make sure that happens, EVERYONE must make certain that they drive out Covid from the community, by following all guidelines scrupulously, even when that is difficult, boring and inconvenient.

[mrshoho]

@mosquitofeast

Well, a lesson is 50-120 minutes long, so any staff that have taught that class would have been close for more than 15 minutes.

Depending on where the child was seated it would seem. The guidance doesn't class being in the same enclosed classroom as close contact. Crazy.

[GhostTypeEevee]

6 households are allowed outside? I thought it was only 6 people

[LegoMaus]

The question is how we achieve this

-Government needs to give money to schools instead of giving cheap dinners to grown adults
-Invest in Portacabins as additional classrooms and mobile bathroom facilities
-Parents need to accept the necessity of wearing masks in schools
-Realise that schools can’t stay open reliably in their current format and look into alternatives such as remote learning, part-time hours to enable social distancing, etc
-Stop letting kids play outside in groups with no social distancing

[Yetiyoga]

@KrabbyPatties unfortunately this puts the ball in the parents court. And many will say they did when they didn't. I am a nanny and I've had children sent (in a nanny share scenario) when it has come to light that the children have been throwing up in the night and i have not been told. And plenty play down the symptoms!

[ChaBishkoot]

Our schools are opening fully from Pre K- Grade 2. Teachers masked. Social distancing. Bubbles. Lots of hand washing. As stated above.

Then Grade 3-8 will be doing 2 days on, 3 off and then 3 days off, 2 on the following week. And doing online hybrid learning.

This is all till the end of October when these will be revisited.

All ‘high needs’ children will be taught in person.

As I said before there are temperature checks, regular testing of teachers, masks and hand washing.

Grade 8-12 will be remote learning till the end of October at which point they too will come into school in a phased manner (3 days on, 2 off).

For now the only thing we don’t know about is ‘extended day’, ie the after school provision.

[Trashtara]

@Yetiyoga

Schools will open. Why wouldn't they now? Even those in local lockdown schools will open (if Scotland is anything to go by)

I'm in an area of local lockdown. The latest news said "we really hope schools will reopen but it is possible this will not be for everyone"

[ChaBishkoot]

The above is for my son’s elementary school in New England. I already posted some of the other measures we are taking above.

[Bananabread8]

@halcyondays

And if/when schools go back, there’ll be some people sending on kids when they have coughs/temps etc.

This is the thing. How will we know the different between something like a cold and COVID-19? I say that whilst working on a ward myself.

Imagine all the parents ring their boss saying I can’t come in due to X having a cough. It’s just not viable.