Bit of forward planning for Covid vaccine.....

[waltzingparrot]

How long do you think it will take to vaccinate 67 million people?

[CountFosco]

Diseases like COVID arise from the shocking destruction and plundering of the planets resources.
They spread because people consider air travel more important than health control

We have always had pandemics. The Black Death and Spanish Flu both killed millions when the world population was much lower than it is now and we didn't have mass air travel. It is nothing to do with humankind being punished for bad behaviour.

[Sunshinegirl82]

We don’t actually know what caused COVID as yet as far as I’m aware? There are theories but no definitive answer.

I consider a vaccine that allows us to go back to normal to be a very good thing. You can argue that we shouldn’t do so for various reasons but I don’t accept that a vaccine that puts an end to the need for everyone to stay 6ft away from everyone else can be anything other than a good thing!

[CountFosco]

Just wanted to comment on the likelihood of an effective vaccine programme. The NHS is very good at vaccination, we have the highest percentage in the world of vulnerable people vaccinated against flu every year. Vaccination is cheap and effective so it makes sense for a national health service to prioritise it.

It's a bit like the Recovery Trial, we're great at using evidence to identify cheap and effective medicine. The data on dexamethasone is fantastic news and will make a massive difference worldwide. We might have shit politicians but British science is world class.

[ListeningQuietly]

a vaccine that puts an end to the need for everyone to stay 6ft away from everyone else
Germany and France are managing just that without a vaccine

6ft is a made up number by our shit politicians who

• cancelled PPE stocks
• cancelled track and trace
• deliberately sent infected patients to care homes
• did not stop air travel
• tells people to take public transport on their way to quarantine

Do not blame COVID for that
blame political advisers who believe in darwinian eradication of the elderly as clearly published in his blog years ago

[IcedPurple]

I am pouring cold water over the hopes that a vaccine obviates the need for the hard work of hygiene control

same as Climate change will be controlled by hard work and significant changes
not quick fixes

I hardly call a vaccine which will have built on years of work by the world's leading experts to be a 'quick fix'. Vaccines have been of huge benefit to millions of people over the past century.

But by all means stay at home quarantining your post and wiping down your groceries if it makes you feel good.

A vaccine that lets us go back to normal is not a good outcome

It would be a very good thing for me and I look forward to it very much.

You may do as you wish.

[Sunshinegirl82]

@listenigquietly

I’m pretty sure you know what i mean. 6ft, 4ft, 3ft whatever. I don’t want to queue to go into a shop. I want to meet my friends and be able to touch them and let our DC play together, I want to go into my friend’s houses, I want to go to the cinema and to see the play I booked tickets for that has been postponed twice, I want to see Take That at the O2 again! If the vaccine makes that happen then it’s a good thing as far as I am concerned.

I’m not sure why you are linking the alleged wider failings of the government on PPE, care homes etc to the vaccine?

The government fucked up on care homes so we shouldn’t have a vaccine? Whatever failings there have been (and I am sure there have been a huge number) a working vaccine is a hugely positive thing.

[blametheparents]

There was a great Webinar with Professor Sarah Gilbert today which can be found on YouTube. I learnt loads from watching it.

[blametheparents]

@Char2015
One of the leads for the Oxford vaccine is just about to talk live now. If you are interested, it can be viewed here:
I watched this presentation and interview and found it really informative.
It showed me that safety is paramount, and that reassured me.
It would seem that once there are approx 30 cases of Covid amongst the participants of the trial then they will discover which had had the vaccine and which had not and be able to start to draw conclusions about efficacy. So, if the split is 50/50 then the vaccine has not worked, but if more in the control group get Covid than the vaccine group then that would be good news.
They obviously do not know when they might reach this threshold.
Stage 3 trials are taking part in the UK with healthcare workers, and in Brazil.

[jasjas1973]

I think i get what LQ means, no point if we get a vaccine but then carry on our lives that make further pandemics more not less likely.

Of course we want to see our kids, hug our family and friends etc but maybe we also need to look at how we travel, farm our food & take care of our environment?

[Ali2020]

I posted on the other thread that it now seems October is the date expected for the Oxford vaccine to be ready.

Does anyone know why this has been pushed back slightly?

www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-oxford-university-vaccine-to-provide-protection-for-about-a-year-says-drugmaker-12007789

[IcedPurple]

I’m not sure why you are linking the alleged wider failings of the government on PPE, care homes etc to the vaccine?

That's been a theme in these posts over the past few months.

No matter what the particular focus of the thread is, it always comes back to the failings of the govt. as though there weren't already about a million threads dedicated to just that subject. I'm sure most of us would agree that the govt's response has been shit, but that doesn't mean we can't be cautiously optimistic on other fronts. No point in that for the MN Debbie Downers though!

[jasjas1973]

Iced

Not read anything remotely Debbie Downer but have read a lot of super positivity Happy Clappy stuff lol!

Only have to look at the extensive lockdowns in China to see that caution is far better than unrealistic optimism.

As welcome as the Oxford vaccine news is, i would like to know what the plan is if these do not work? other countries who have pre ordered the AZ vaccine have also pre ordered from other vaccine programs...... have we? or is it all our eggs in one basket?

[IcedPurple]

Not read anything remotely Debbie Downer

Maybe read your own posts?

Only have to look at the extensive lockdowns in China to see that caution is far better than unrealistic optimism

It's a temporary localised lockdown, singular, hardly 'extensive lockdowns'. And the Chinese have said the outbreak - and outbreaks of this nature were always to be expected - appears to be under control.

Anyway, as I said above, this thread is about the vaccine - not about China and not about the govt's failings - and there are certainly groups to be optimistic in that particular regard.

As welcome as the Oxford vaccine news is, i would like to know what the plan is if these do not work? other countries who have pre ordered the AZ vaccine have also pre ordered from other vaccine programs...... have we? or is it all our eggs in one basket?

I don't know. Why don't you do a Google search? Probably likely to be more informative than asking on MN.

[jasjas1973]

Well, i have and it does look like we have put all our eggs in the Oxford basket, i was hoping someone on here may have heard differently.

The Chinese outbreak is quite extensive and shows that a: we shouldn't be complacent and b: we need a vaccine and or highly effective treatments.

The thread is about vaccine/forward planning, learning from other countries is surely part of that? unless you think the pandemic is over.

[blametheparents]

I am sure that the govt has also invested in The Imperial's vaccine work. It is not as far advanced as the Oxford vaccine work, but there are positive reports.

[Sunshinegirl82]

@jasjas1973

I think i get what LQ means, no point if we get a vaccine but then carry on our lives that make further pandemics more not less likely.

Of course we want to see our kids, hug our family and friends etc but maybe we also need to look at how we travel, farm our food & take care of our environment?

Maybe we do need to look at travel, farming etc. It’s an entirely separate point from the vaccine though isn’t it? Whether we should behave as normal is not the same as being ableto behave as normal. Unless you are saying we shouldn’t be permitted the vaccine until we can somehow prove we’ve learned our lesson?

I wonder if some posters genuinely don’t want the vaccine to come along too quickly as they think the human race will have somehow gotten away with its failings (as they perceive them)?

[jasjas1973]

Sunshine I was answering the PP who said they didn't understand LQs post, not that i agreed with LQ or the relevance to this thread!
(every thread goes off topic, thats the nature of the beast)

Of course anyone would want a vaccine, its crazy to suggest otherwise! the imperial vaccine is promising but (i believe) hasn't the manufacturing capabilities that the AZ one has.

The stock response to anyone being more cautious seems to be "You want lockdown/CV to continue" which is quite horrible, perhaps we are more cautious because we have lost loved ones to CV or are at risk of serious health implications?
In my case, a relative where we were denied saying our goodbyes or even attending her funeral.

[Sunshinegirl82]

I think it’s a reasonable question. Why would you conflate the issues of a vaccine and our ongoing behaviour as a species unless you in some way believe the two issues are (or should be) linked?

Your position seems to be the same as mine I.e they are not linked.

If others think they should be linked I would be interested to know why. The arguments put forward so far seem to suggest that a vaccine is not the answer because human behaviour continues to be problematic/bad and needs to change. So are some posters saying there shouldn’t be a vaccine until the human race can prove it will behave better in the future? If that is not what they are saying, what actually are they saying?

[IcedPurple]

The arguments put forward so far seem to suggest that a vaccine is not the answer because human behaviour continues to be problematic/bad and needs to change. So are some posters saying there shouldn’t be a vaccine until the human race can prove it will behave better in the future? If that is not what they are saying, what actually are they saying?

I really do think it's because some people are addicted to the doom and drama of this crisis. They'll deny it but it does appear to be the case.

First, it was a vaccine is 'years off'. Then it was 'Well, it may happen but maybe it won't work that well'. Now it's, 'Oh sure a vaccine may be available quite soon but it's not going to solve global warming, is it?"

Well no, it's probably not. It's also not going to make the buses run on time but that's life.

The increasingly likelihood of a vaccine being availble by autumn is great news by any standard.

[jasjas1973]

Iced

Once again you mistake caution with "doom and gloom" that is NOT the case.... anymore than me saying your optimism means you think CV will be gone by August!

Right now there isn't an Oxford vaccine, there are trials and lets hope and pray they'll be successful but they may not be, in which case, i think it would be wise to have a plan B or even a plan C !

We might like to think that medical research starts and finishes in the UK but you can bet your last $ the Chinese, Germany Switzerland France and the Americans etc etc are also working flat out to get a vaccine too.

I would really hate to have to listen to Hancock in November, as he explains the RoW is after the Roche or Bayer vaccine and no it wasn't a mistake not to pre order in June as the "Science" said we didn't have too.

[jasjas1973]

www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-exactly-where-were-at-with-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19

The section on vaccines is toward the end of the article.

[IcedPurple]

We might like to think that medical research starts and finishes in the UK

Well, maybe YOU might like to think that but nobody with any sense would. But if that's what you 'might like to think', by all means go ahead.

but you can bet your last $ the Chinese, Germany Switzerland France and the Americans etc etc are also working flat out to get a vaccine too

Yes, there are about 100 potential vaccines at various stages of development right now. Not new news. Which is even more cause to be optimistic, surely?

[jasjas1973]

Iced

lol!