Bit of forward planning for Covid vaccine.....

[waltzingparrot]

How long do you think it will take to vaccinate 67 million people?

[Sunshinegirl82]

Adrian Hill (one of the members of the Oxford Vaccine team) did a very interesting Webinar for Oxford University where he explained quite a lot of detail about how the vaccine developed and how it worked, testing etc. I can’t seem to link it but it’s fairly easy to google. It’s really interesting and definitely worth a watch.

[CKBJ]

Sunshinegirl82 thanks I’ll google it.

[Char2015]

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@Char2015

Yes I read that this morning. I remember him talking about using an inhaler to administer the vaccine but I understood it to be something that would take longer than a traditional vaccine from what he said due to it being more difficult to produce? I’m also not sure how it could be available next month when the efficacy trials haven’t been completed? Confusing![/quote]
All these developments are definitely going in the right direction but as you said, efficacy trials are not completed so I can't see how anything will be ready next month. Definitely confusing.

I had wondered if the inhaler would be better to use for primary school children in order to get them vaccinated at school quickly. I can see there being problems (i.e. tears, screaming etc) with injectable vaccines with young children especially in the absence of their parents in the school environment. Or maybe for self-administration purposes issuing an inhaler would get people vaccinated more quickly. I will definitely be keeping my eye out for further news regarding this inhaler.

[ZombieFan]

efficacy trials are not completed so I can't see how anything will be ready next month
It 'might' be ready next month but that doesn't mean it will be allowed to be administered to the public. Two different things.

I can see there being problems ... with injectable vaccines with young children especially in the absence of their parents in the school environment There is no need to rush the vaccine out to young children at school, the virus hardly affects them. They can be given it at the same time they are given the flu jab, at the GPs.

[Char2015]

I've just read that a mistake has been made in the phase II/III trials of Oxford vaccine and that some participants have been given the incorrect dose. Apparently they have been given less of the dose than what was required. Participants are being contacted to inform them. Oxford say that there is no need to stop/pause the trial and that the trial continues. I'm not sure what this means for the participants given the incorrect dose, whether they will be given a top up or whether they are out of the trial?

[Mybrowneyedgal]

Yes I wondered this, and whether it has changed the results. The vaccine could look ineffective but it is actually because volunteers didn't have enough administered?

[BlastedMolluscum]

Would this affect those that are part of the trial in Brazil?

There was some positive news regarding a Chinese vaccine recently: www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-vaccine-chinese-biotech-says-jab-produced-antibodies/

It surprises me how little the work on vaccines are being reported on the news. It's no wonder that I see people commenting on threads statements such as "there probably never will be a vaccine". I 100% believe there will and it'll be before the end of the year.

[gingercat02]

I imagine they will roll out vaccination programmes in workplaces, schools, community centres etc so GP practices don't spend all their time doing Covid/Flu/pneumonia/shingles vaccs all winter

[PowerslidePanda]

I've just read that a mistake has been made in the phase II/III trials of Oxford vaccine and that some participants have been given the incorrect dose. Apparently they have been given less of the dose than what was required. Participants are being contacted to inform them. Oxford say that there is no need to stop/pause the trial and that the trial continues. I'm not sure what this means for the participants given the incorrect dose, whether they will be given a top up or whether they are out of the trial?

The participants were never promised the actual vaccine and half were given a placebo, so I'd be surprised if anyone gets given a top-up. I would have thought there could still be value in looking at the effects of the partial dose compared to the full one too.

[Char2015]

@PowerslidePanda

I've just read that a mistake has been made in the phase II/III trials of Oxford vaccine and that some participants have been given the incorrect dose. Apparently they have been given less of the dose than what was required. Participants are being contacted to inform them. Oxford say that there is no need to stop/pause the trial and that the trial continues. I'm not sure what this means for the participants given the incorrect dose, whether they will be given a top up or whether they are out of the trial?

The participants were never promised the actual vaccine and half were given a placebo, so I'd be surprised if anyone gets given a top-up. I would have thought there could still be value in looking at the effects of the partial dose compared to the full one too.

No but it is the covid-19 vaccine that has been given incorrectly not the placebo. If they were given a top-up, then the whole blind study concept would go out of the window which is why I think they will now be excluded from the study instead of given a top up. Hence why they are now being contact to inform them of this mistake.The 'correct' dose is already been based on pre-clinical studies and research so I can't see how those given the incorrect dose would be allowed to continue to be officially studied a part of this trial but would certainly need to be observed closely because it is a new vaccine.

[Char2015]

@BlastedMolluscum

Would this affect those that are part of the trial in Brazil?

There was some positive news regarding a Chinese vaccine recently: www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-vaccine-chinese-biotech-says-jab-produced-antibodies/

It surprises me how little the work on vaccines are being reported on the news. It's no wonder that I see people commenting on threads statements such as "there probably never will be a vaccine". I 100% believe there will and it'll be before the end of the year.

I hope Brazil have been given the correct dose. But if not, I can't see it being that difficult to send correct across and administer to new participants. This could happen quite quickly.

A lot of the people saying that there will probably never be a vaccine are those that are not closely following the progress and the publish research as well as the scientific lectures taking place. I'm closely following all of this and has increased my knowledge hugely and I have seen some positive things that have been published or lectures given that make it seem like we will get a vaccine eventually.

[PowerslidePanda]

No but it is the covid-19 vaccine that has been given incorrectly not the placebo. If they were given a top-up, then the whole blind study concept would go out of the window which is why I think they will now be excluded from the study instead of given a top up. Hence why they are now being contact to inform them of this mistake.The 'correct' dose is already been based on pre-clinical studies and research so I can't see how those given the incorrect dose would be allowed to continue to be officially studied a part of this trial but would certainly need to be observed closely because it is a new vaccine.

That makes sense and sounds likely. I think there is some trial and error with regards to the dose though, as the plan was to give one group of participants double the standard dose (but with their knowledge and consent - they weren't part of the blind trial group).

[BlastedMolluscum]

It's really nice to read a balanced discussion like this; threads like this seem to be few and far between on here atm, particularly covid-related ones.

[Mybrowneyedgal]

Might it be worth making a thread where progress of vaccine and treatments could be shared? I love something like that.

[CountFosco]

We do not routinely vaccinate for chicken pox in this country yet it kills per year as covid.

We don't vaccinate for chickenpox because outbreaks in children boosts the immunity in adults and so reduces the incidence and severity of shingles.

There are also nowhere near the same number of deaths, ONS don't publish this data specifically but there's a few sources online suggesting there are ~20 deaths a year, mostly adults suffering from shingles.

[Char2015]

@PowerslidePanda

No but it is the covid-19 vaccine that has been given incorrectly not the placebo. If they were given a top-up, then the whole blind study concept would go out of the window which is why I think they will now be excluded from the study instead of given a top up. Hence why they are now being contact to inform them of this mistake.The 'correct' dose is already been based on pre-clinical studies and research so I can't see how those given the incorrect dose would be allowed to continue to be officially studied a part of this trial but would certainly need to be observed closely because it is a new vaccine.

That makes sense and sounds likely. I think there is some trial and error with regards to the dose though, as the plan was to give one group of participants double the standard dose (but with their knowledge and consent - they weren't part of the blind trial group).

Yes, I had read about that group. I had assumed that that they are checking the safety of two doses in a healthy group before trialling in older patients as I've read that older people may need two doses as older people generally don't produce enough of an immune response with one dose in some vaccines/treatments. I think this was phase I and phase II/III will trial two doses in older people now.

I've also just read that AstraZeneca has told a radio station that it is likely the vaccine will protect for a year. So it's looking like we may have to have vaccine administered yearly.

[conveniencestore]

Forward planning - I really wish you posters on this thread were in charge - some good ideas.
How much forward planning did our all-controlling government manage in buying PPE and testing kits in January, February and early March? Or did they wait until mid-March when we had masses of cases when all spare world stocks were depleted and unavailable for export to the UK and we hadn't increased our own capacity? Who thinks they will manage/mismanage the vaccination programme the same?

[Char2015]

This is actually my only fear about the vaccine.. about the mis-management of implementing and carrying out a vaccination programme. Yes, we needed and need their financial input to develop, manufacture etc the vaccine, but the programme itself should be left to Public Health England and NHS England (and equivalents in other nations) to arrange. We will certainly need governments money to distribute/transport, employ people to administer the vaccine, set up centres (or where ever they choose the vaccinate people) etc but I don't want them having any say as to who should get it first, when or where, as I believe these are the decisions that should be made by the experts and not the government.

[Bol87]

I despise the government but I think there is so much riding on a vaccine that this will be the one thing they probably get fairly right!

If they don’t, they should be kicked out of government immediately 🤦🏼‍♀️

[conveniencestore]

I really hope the government are planning like mad now for any potential vaccine. I hope they are making sure they are first in line (not at the back of the queue as with PPE and tests). I hope they are working with Europe if necessary (not refusing 3 offers of joining in a PPE programme with Europe (presumably because they would rather be dead in a ditch than work with Europe)). I hope they are looking at all suppliers of vaccines worldwide. I hope they are not playing hardball about costs. I hope they are not alienating us in the world by being idiots in world/European diplomacy (or lack of). I hope they are planning to buy enough for everyone so it is not a case of rationing (like testing was back in March and April).

[conveniencestore]

I will never forget Matt Hancock in mid/late March begging for ventilators on several national news programme - 'if you have a ventilator, we will buy it'. The worst planning ever ever ever. This virus was known to be on its way since January. I really hope in the autumn, he or his unlucky successor is not in national TV begging for vaccines.

[BlastedMolluscum]

@Mybrowneyedgal

Might it be worth making a thread where progress of vaccine and treatments could be shared? I love something like that.

I think that's a really good idea.

@conveniencestore agreed, the PPE fiasco was an utter shit-show. The care-home testing didn't go too well either.

[conveniencestore]

Did I hear correctly that the government has only bought 30 million vaccines? That's less than half the population...

[feelingverylazytoday]

conveniencestore that's enough to vaccinate people who are vulnerable. There's no need to vaccinate everyone.
The aim is to make this vaccine (and others) available around the world, including poorer countries, not just rich ones like the UK.

[Sunshinegirl82]

The government have ordered 100 million doses of the Oxford vaccine. 40 million to be delivered in September (all being well) he remainder by the end of the year (again, all being well!)