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Covid

Will other parts of the NHS be overwhelmed now?

115 replies

Crosswordocelot · 31/05/2020 09:34

Part of lockdown was to protect the NHS and to stop everyone getting cv19 at the same time thus needing treatment.
But now I'm wondering about all the things that have been put on hold....wont those dept be swamped and overwhelmed when they need to "catch up" with 3 months of missed appointments and treatments? And will some people need more longer, more invasive or intensive treatment for something if treated at the first stage was minor but if left could become a bigger problem....?
I was talking to a dentist recently and they didnt know when they would be back to work but some colleagues had been made redundant. But they were talking about dental problems which would be a lot worse/harder to fix if left untreated.
As well as cancer patients.
I dont mean that lockdown shouldn't have happened but I'm just thinking that parts of the NHS will be overloaded with a backlog of patients for many more months.

OP posts:
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Sweetnhappy1 · 01/06/2020 16:01

@EnlightenedOwl Why did you have to go private. I'm a GP, I'm doing telephone reviews and video consultation for all my patients and bringing in the ones who really need seeing. If you had called me with that, I would have just treated you.

@highmarkingsnowbile If it's prescription hay fever medication you need (vs. normal stuff available over the counter) your GP should be able to sort this over the phone.

We'd be happy to see anyone who can't be dealt with over the phone or by video with adequate PPE. Unfortunately the PPE issues are just brushed under the carpet and threads like this make out we're sitting around doing nothing. I've never been busier than I am now.

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Sweetnhappy1 · 01/06/2020 16:03

B12 injections also restarting now, just give your GP a call to check how they are arranging this stuff.

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highmarkingsnowbile · 01/06/2020 16:09

Some people don't have very good GPs, Sweet Sad and cannot change them as there's only one in the area and they can't move. Mine is a fob off merchant so I have to go private. I needed fexofenadine, all the other OTC anti-allergy meds have not worked for me and I'm quite ill with them (this is the worst I've ever been). Really backwards and restrictive prescribing restrictions in the UK as well (not the GPs fault).

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SimplySteveRedux · 01/06/2020 16:16

They already are being overwhelmed. DP is blind, she has 10% sight in one eye, she is supposed to be getting some special glasses to maximise the vision she has left and it's been pushed back, back, back.

I'm waiting for an operation, and two diagnoses (not related). I'll be amazed if any of them happen this year.

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SimplySteveRedux · 01/06/2020 16:19

DP was due a new insulin pump in February, she will be using her expired warranty old pump until September. Meanwhile she is receiving consumables for both pumps, costing the NHS around £2500 per month.

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Sweetnhappy1 · 01/06/2020 16:31

@highmarkingsnowbile I'm sorry to hear that. I've done quite a few Fexofenadine prescriptions in the past few weeks and sent them electronically to a pharmacy, usually the patient has needed them in the past after trying everything else. I agree the prescribing restrictions are backwards in the UK, I pretty sure you can get Fexofenadine over the counter in other countries.

We're not meant to prescribe anything that is available over the counter (Cetirizine, Loratadine, nasal steroid spray, Sodium cromoglicate eye drops). Often people call me for a prescription and haven't tried anything over the counter yet and then feel fobbed off when a prescription isn't forthcoming. Of course, if those methods don't work then it's totally fair enough to request a Fexofenadine prescription.

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Laniakea · 01/06/2020 16:37

we go to a private GP* for fexofenadine prescriptions - it's actually cheaper because the 'at cost' private prescription charge is £6 rather than the £9 NHS flat rate.

(*dh's work thankfully paid for their employees to have private GP access for "the duration of the coronavirus crisis", recognising how impossible it has been for many of them to access the NHS)

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highmarkingsnowbile · 01/06/2020 16:45

This is the first time I've ever needed it. I really tried everything else. Knew it was pointless to bother with our GP because he doesn't seem to believe patients when they say they've tried everything else. I'll be leaving the country next month so will stock up there - yes, the UK is one of the few places in the world where it's not OTC. Just got a script to do me for now as I'm REALLY suffering this year and apparently so are a lot of other people who say they have never had hayfever or allergies so badly as this year - it's been so dry.

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EnlightenedOwl · 01/06/2020 17:56

[quote Sweetnhappy1]@EnlightenedOwl Why did you have to go private. I'm a GP, I'm doing telephone reviews and video consultation for all my patients and bringing in the ones who really need seeing. If you had called me with that, I would have just treated you.

@highmarkingsnowbile If it's prescription hay fever medication you need (vs. normal stuff available over the counter) your GP should be able to sort this over the phone.

We'd be happy to see anyone who can't be dealt with over the phone or by video with adequate PPE. Unfortunately the PPE issues are just brushed under the carpet and threads like this make out we're sitting around doing nothing. I've never been busier than I am now.[/quote]
Our GP is emergency only I rang 3 days straight but couldn't get appt and got a bit desperate

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Sweetnhappy1 · 01/06/2020 18:17

@EnlightenedOwl Gosh, that's really annoying. It really shouldn't be so difficult and certainly not emergency only now. I could understand at the beginning of lockdown because lots of us were off sick/we didn't have the tech set up/we didn't know how to manage this but now it should be telephone/video consultations as the norm for routine appointments. Depending on where you live, if you're still very much in the peak you may still have lots of HCPs off sick. PPE is still a problem but obviously that wouldn't affect telephone/video appointments.

You may have to pre-book appointments like you did before Covid and some surgeries get you to fill in an online form to get some more information first. Remote consultations are taking a similar amount of time as previous face to face appointments by the time you've called someone's number three times and left a voicemail and/or grappled with the webcam, so appointment numbers should be similar to before.

We're all adapting to new ways of working. We're also suffering from poor communication from the powers that be. For example, today I've had shielding patients ring me confused because of the change in guidelines. The first we heard of this was during the press briefing yesterday evening with no further communication and we're meant to be able to guide people 🤯

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highmarkingsnowbile · 01/06/2020 18:22

Plenty aren't seeing people face-to-face, perhaps going out to their cars to draw blood (What if you have no car?) or emergency only. In addition to some just being fob off merchants Sad. I would ring a vet before I'd ring our GP. Couldn't get an appointment once to get stitches removed. YouTubed it and pulled them out myself.

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Sweetnhappy1 · 01/06/2020 18:31

@highmarkingsnowbile I'm also not seeing face to face unless it's totally unavoidable because if something can be dealt with on the phone/video then we can maintain social distancing and avoid the situation where patients are catching stuff from us. Having said that, taking your own stitches out is shit, we would definitely have seen you for that, I'm so sorry you had that experience. As I said before, if it was at the beginning of lockdown it may have been because of staff sickness but if you needed stitches out now and were being fobbed off then that's shocking behaviour.

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highmarkingsnowbile · 01/06/2020 18:39

Oh, it wasn't too bad. If you YouTube enough clips. You have to be confident and just go for it, like the OP who gave herself the B12 injections. Can't hesitate.

There was one classic thread on here from someone who did surgery on her own arse.

I've removed my own skin tags, too.

It helped that I'd had surgical stitches that went all the way down for major knee surgery pulled out before so kind of knew what to expect. It's a strange sensation. This was a couple of years ago, no lockdown excuse. Whatever.

For a lot of people it's just better to go private or YouTube it. Faster, too!

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cptartapp · 01/06/2020 18:57

I'm a practice nurse that's been doing B12 injections, urgent bloods, some smears, injections etc throughout. Lots by telephone too but my clinics are full.

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Ginfilledcats · 01/06/2020 19:40

I'm so sick of having to explain this, and it's entirely the NHS fault for not communicating it properly and letting people understand what's going on! No wonder everyone's concerned, fed up or scared. Basically, not every dept or trust has done the same thing. However the reasoning is all fairly similar.

We had to stop routine care as the sickness rate was so high (I had 40 medics off on one day sick with covid or isolating awaiting results) and the expected admissions were so high that in order to safely staff the wards where patients were recovering/dying from covid/other stuff clinics had to be stopped, there was just no way to safely cover wards AND continue to deliver the same level of surgery outpatient care. Secondly bringing patients to clinic or for surgery would massively increase exposure and risk of infection for both patient and staff. 3rdly: no one had a bloody clue what to do and where quite honestly making it up as we went along as we had little direction.

Not every trust stopped everything. Not every department stopped everything. Classic NHS - no consistency in approach. In my trust, all patients on any list (in some cases over 800 patients) had their notes, results, referrals and last letters reviewed and put in a priority order. The urgent patients (cancer, life and limb) have continued to be "seen" not necessarily face to face, some via video and some via telephone. Not ideal, but better than nothing. Reducing face to face contact has been a big aim of the NHS for years covid or not, so it was going this way anyway as you can see more patients and disrupts patients less as the clinic can be done from home/work etc. Covid just sped this process up, massively. It's a bloody miracle it was achieved actually when you bare in mind the need for buying and getting the hard ware, the soft ware, setting up, getting consultants to accept the change, training them and THEN getting the patients on board, all in the midst of a pandemic. Like I say, not ideal for some but better than nothing for most.

This list I mentioned is being monitored carefully by managers to make sure people aren't slipping through the net. It's called risk stratification, consultants review the aforementioned detail and determine when the patient needs to be seen before coming to clinical harm, the clinical rationale for this reason and how the patient should be seen (f2f/telephone) eg: asymptomatic bradycardia in a 50 year old who recently had bloods done might be deemed safe to see in 6 months time, whereas a 70 year old with complex comobidities, sudden onset of shortness of breath etc will need to be seen within 4 weeks, therefore the 70 year old is prioritised over the 50 year old despite the 50 year old already waiting 6 months (note: I'm not a doctor/medical in anyway and have plucked 2 conditions out of thin air not having a clue whether one is worse than the other, so don't panic if you have either of these symptoms - just using 2 different conditions as an example). It's shit but necessary. After the patient is seen a review is then conducted to determine if any harm has been caused by the delay, if so this is the. Reviewed by senior clinicians who can put actions in for bed practise in the future.
I am aware not all trusts are doing this - why? I can only speculate it's purely down to staffing and how badly effected their hospital was. Or how poorly ran it is. Post code lottery I suppose. (By the way, my trust got requires improvement in the CQC report so isn't like some amazing teaching hospital)

In terms of how long will it take to recover these lists? A year I reckon as we're not allowed to pay the doctors extras to do evening clinics/Saturdays, number of clinics held in our patients for f2f have to be limited for social distancing. Patients cancel on the day as they're poorly or sick wasting slots and then need to be fitting in, doctors get sick on the day and there's no one to cross cover their clinic so the entire clinic gets cancelled. The latter re sickness is standard problems though.

For the last 3-4 weeks all hospitals have been told to work on a plan for "business with covid" ie get back to as close as possible for normal business whilst considering social distancing/PPE and the increased ward rounds.

Most of my specialties have a consultant ward round twice or three times a week in normal circumstances. At the height of the pandemic there was at least 1 a day, if not two to manage the poorly patients and discharge as fast as possible to free up beds. There was therefore no time for clinics to be held. Quite often registrars hold clinics, but all of these were cancelled as they were needed to support on call etc.

It's been shit for everyone, the patients who have been left "abandoned" especially - a lot of worry could have been eased by communicating the hospital plans and reasons why, but it hasn't been which I feel is a big let down for patients too.

We tried to get Locum doctors to come and work for us, most refused to work in covid areas and the ones that would engage wanted 2-3 x the normal hourly rate (up to £300 an hour in one instance) we just didn't have the money to do so!

I'm really really sorry to those who have suffered because of this, but please note it's not your local NHS docs nurses or managers making these decisions. And edict was delivered from NHSE saying " all none essential work must stop" this was sent out mid March and said only til the end of April. Then about the 24th April a second one came out saying cancel everything until end of May, then a couple of weeks ago the same for June giving us little notice or time to plan for each months worth of patients - most trusts (from reading your sad posts on here) seem to have taken it literally - maybe they had to because of sickness/influx of patients I don't know, but there was an element of common sense to be applied which is what my trust did. Nothing perfect, patients still having to wait longer than anyone will like but not sure what the alternative was?

Things are getting closer to normal now, but like you say, the implications of this ceasing of services in many areas may be catastrophic and we won't know the true extent for years.

My unsolicited advice - if you are unsure what's going on in your trust you can call PALS and ask to speak to the relevant manager for your area, you could request a Freedom of Information Request for the trust business continuity plans for your area. If you have any worsening symptoms call the secretary, email if you can get an address and make it known so the consultant can review and determine how to progress.

Hope that helps somewhat understand some of the rationale; and hope sincerely you all get seen soon and get the treatment you need as safely as possible!

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