Isn't the solution everyone in N95 masks?

[Miljea]

Just thinking....

I don't know what the transmission rate of viruses from N95 mask wearers is; I assume it's low. Am prepared for correction, here!

But, what about, instead of 'lockdown until vaccine' (whenever that might be) mass production, fit-testing and mandatory wearing of such masks for those able to do so?

It's not a great 'new normal', but surely possibly more effective than acrylic barriers?

[bellinisurge]

N95 masks do not offer complete protection from the virus. You need eye shield and medical level disposable PPE at all times.
Pretty sure lockdown is easier.

[iwillnevereatspaghetti]

My family rely on lip reading to communicate
Constantly wearing masks means that is impossible.

[Miljea]

Nothing other than a 100% effective vaccine, which has never happened, ever, will make us safe.

PPE, as a term has become politicised.

My understanding is that Covid enters you via mucous membranes. Mouth, nose, eyes. Masks are the biggie, and goggles/visors protect against active patients coughing and sneezing at you.

Gloves and gowns keep it off you. Off your clothes. You don't need to wear this PPE to prevent transmission, you just need to not get close to potentially Covid'y people (active, heavy viral load) and then not separate out your outdoor clothes from indoor clothes. And not wipe your eyes, nose and mouth after wiping your hands all over your clothes!

I think FFP3 masks, intelligently worn, is the way to go.

[Miljea]

So, to bellinisurge, I don't believe you need 100% medical-grade PPE to be 'safe' .... enough.

Just a good mask and training.

[headachehenry]

If you've got a tiny face, they won't fit properly and protect you though. I'm frontline nhs and over half my team can't wear FFP3 as they don't fit them properly - even tried multiple types. Bit on an inconvenience really!

[Miljea]

So, is the solution lock down for the entire population, or using British ingenuity, pluck, and manufacturing skills ( you know, the ones that will make us great again, post Brexit....) to design and make FFP3 masks to fit everyone?

Why is that not an attainable goal?

[Derbygerbil]

In Asia, people wear masks routinely if they have a cold/virus, so are used to them and know how they work.

Don’t they tend to wear normal masks rather than medical-grade N95 masks?

If everyone simply wore normal face coverings in closed spaces, that would probably have a significant impact given Covid isn’t generally aerosolised . It’s unrealistic to try to de-risk entirely. What next, everyone in Hazmat suits before they go in public?

[Loveita]

No thanks. But you go ahead

[bellinisurge]

@Miljea , I know. There's a difference between N95 masks and face covering cloth masks. Cloth masks are better than nothing and might give people confidence to go out as long as they are properly used.
I've just made a bunch of them for family.
The thought of all of us wandering around in masks made from old socks or whatever is pretty grim.

[Mentounasc]

Here in Germany face coverings have been compulsory in shops and public transport for the last few weeks - but in conjunction with a whole range of measures to keep people apart as well. Using a mask is necessary but not sufficient, and since FFP3 masks need fitting to be effective you would need to retain the 'distancing' requirement even if they were easily available.

The single use surgical masks are plentiful here, as are reusable commercially bought cloth masks.

Compliance with face coverings is 100% in shops (they won't let you in otherwise) and public transport is round 95%.

Types of covering (very rough observational estimate):
+/- 40% single-use surgical-type masks (lord knows how many times people are using them)
+/- 40% sewn cloth masks, whether homemade or bought
+/- 10% medical or construction grade masks, the kind that do offer some protection for the wearer but should be reserved for HCP
+/- 10% scarves pulled tight over face, totally permissible here

Our R is currently around 0.8 with shops open after a brief blip up to 1.1. so I think the masks are helping to keep the rate manageable among other measures. Restaurants are now opening again, of course you can't eat wearing a mask so twill be interesting to see if the rate changes.

The main point here: when things start opening up you won't be going back to the same situation as before until the vaccine achieves herd immunity - coming 'out of lockdown' is not the end of this. Even though our shops are open and some kids back at school, the situation feels as weird and abnormal as it did when everything was closed. Our (German) government has made clear that for the next year or so public spaces will have to open and close as the rate falls or rises - has this message really come across in the UK?

[Gwenhwyfar]

"In Asia, people wear masks routinely if they have a cold/virus, so are used to them and know how they work."

Yes, but they're not wearing N95 masks in the streets even in Asia. These are the ones doctors use and as you pointed out are probably too uncomfortable for people to wear all the time.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"'m frontline nhs and over half my team can't wear FFP3 as they don't fit them properly - even tried multiple types. Bit on an inconvenience really!"

Yes. Is this because these things tend to be made for men?

[MoltoAgitato]

God no. N95 masks need to be properly fitted, most people won’t have a clue how to use them properly.

You’d also be banning beards and facial hair.

[NameChangedToProtect1]

Isn't transfer by touch far more likely?

[ItMustBeBedtimeSurely]

Terrible idea. Have you ever worn an ffp3 mask? They are extremely uncomfortable to wear for any length of time.

Not to mention the fact they need fitting and actually don't work on lots of people. Plus you need to be very careful when putting on/off since the virus can be on the outside. Training everyone to use them would not be workable.

I am a nurse working on covid wards and we only wear ffp3 when absolutely necessary- which means when a patient is on a ventilator since this generates aerosol spray. Standard surgical masks the rest of the time.

[Ffsnosexallowed]

I see loads of people wearing masks incorrectly, wearing them under their noses, pulling them down to speak to folk and then pulling them back up, grabbing them by the front to take off and not washing their hands etc etc. Using masks incorrectly increases the risk of infection. So no, I don't sort the use of face fitted masks (who'd for folk for them? Where would we get supplies etc etc)

[headachehenry]

@Gwenhwyfar Yes - that's it! All made for men's faces, it's ridiculous.

[Ihavechildren]

Good luck with trying to ensure everyone wears them correctly, at all times, during the hottest weeks of the year.

Plus where are you going to magic them up from?

[bellinisurge]

We need a good old fashioned public information film with how to wear them.
Loads of makers on Etsy if you want. I've made a bunch for family but not selling them. Too much pressure

[Miljea]

I wear a FFP3 mask on a daily basis; and I don't find it so awful!

[NameChangedToProtect1]

I have a box of p3 masks in the cupboard. I use these when doing dirtier building work. I haven't been Using them for shopping. Can't say the fitting process is hard though - prince the nose piece and ensure contact.

[NameChangedToProtect1]

The p3 masks I favour for building are valves which keep the mask drier and stop my glasses steaming. However the valve is constantly dripping with moisture so if I have Corona these drips will be very infectious. I'm not sure that wearing masks in public is always a good idea!

[bellinisurge]

But op, you might as well have a cloth mask rather than an ffp3. Because an Ffp3 or N95 without other PPE is an expensive waste of resource.

[Miljea]

Why, bellinisurge? Why would you need full PPE?

CV19 enters through mucous membranes, doesn't it? You just have to observe good hygiene practices, lots of hand washing, leave outdoor clothes as close to the door as possible.

[bellinisurge]

Because N95 masks need a proper seal and don't prevent droplets getting in your eyes. Which is why health care professionals are supposed to use eye shields as well.
Ordinary people , at best, can limit the spray of their mucus etc with cloth masks. Neither cloth masks nor n95 (alone even with a proper seal) do not protect you.