So how come Australia is still locked down?

[Teddypops]

So Australia has approx 20 new cases a day and barely no deaths.

So how come they are still locked down?

[Flaxmeadow]

Australia has a population of 25 million. It's a huge island in the Pacific

The UK has a population of 66 million, probably nearer 70 million, as the next 10 year census is almost due. England (pop 56 million) is a tiny speck in comparison to Australia and is the most densely populated country in Europe.

It has many international airports. Heathrow is one of the busiest airports in the world, if not the busiest. Busy road and rail networks. The channel tunnel. It is also close to northern Italy, with dozens of flights a day to just about every major airport in the UK from 2 large Milan airports. The UK is only 20 miles from France.

Western Europe (pop 200,000,000) is the epicentre of this pandemic and the UK is right in there making up a large proportion of the Blue Banana demographic (look it up)

But apparently this makes the UK comparable to Australia

[Biscuit0110]

flax well said.

Op, Australia fear a second wave, traditionally second waves are far deadly that the first. I suspect the timing of coronavirus known to weaken in sunlight arrived in mid summer in Australia and NZ, however know the winter is coming I suspect they are being very cautious and resisting complacency. This is not over for any of us, we are just at the beginning. I am assuming the scientists in Australia have seen the modelling for their country and they are concerned.

Second wave modelling looks pretty grim for some parts of Europe etc too.

[EagleSqueak]

I wouldn’t make any nasty remarks about the UK, or anywhere else where people are suffering worse than we are here, but I don’t entirely agree with the large country/low density excuse for poor leadership.
I live in Melbourne, a city with 4 million people. We currently have the highest number of new infections in Australia, at 13.
Very early on the government identified that most cases were being brought in from overseas, rather than community transmitted, so they firstly closed the borders to people from mainland China, then we all had mandatory quarantine when returning from overseas.
There have definitely been mistakes - the Hillsong lot and the cruise passengers were responsible for a lot of the community infections which means our infection and death rate (6, 897 and 97) is higher than it might otherwise have been.
We have drive through testing points in shopping centres and anyone can be tested at one of these or at their drs. DH is a dr and he was routinely tested on Thursday. Any healthcare worker can have one.
I can’t stand ScoMo either, but the state premiers seem to be fairly sensible. In Victoria we’re going to be at this level of isolation for a while yet, I think.
It’s Mother’s Day here tomorrow and obviously people are upset that they won’t be able to see their families, but mostly they’re accepting of it.
I guess time will tell whether it’s been handled well or not, but for now I feel safe here.

[Flaxmeadow]

there are points of comparison with other cities, etc

What, cities like Bergamo? A city 10,000 miles from Australia, a city where this disease spread like nothing anyone in our lifetimes has ever seen before. You all try living in Europe with this damn thing. Can't just shove it off like an infected cruise ship into the ocean

[chatwoo]

thank you @flax. I was very close to getting out my population/land mass figures for Aus vs UK!

... oh and did I mention that Australia is 31 times bigger than the UK, but only has 38% of the UK's population (living in relatively few densely populated areas in fairness).

[Biscuit0110]

Melbourne is tiny compared to London, London is over double the size with 8.9 million people living there, without the millions of tourists. Sydney is a tiny little place, no bigger than a large town in the UK. Everything is so spread out. Totally different set up to the UK.

Population density is incredibly significant to the spread of viruses, and time of the year.

I hope Australia do not see a deadly second wave, I don't think anyone is in a position anywhere in the world to rule it out.

[Biscuit0110]

London is a world city, it was always going to be bad. Massive packed underground system, millions of visitors flying in all over the world, international city full of workers from overseas. British people by their very nature travel everywhere all of the time, and always have done. Not to mention the connections we have with mainland Europe where it began on this side of the world (Italy) British people love skiing in Italy.

I don't see it as any failed leadership, just simply demographics. France, Spain, Italy etc we all have similar trajectory.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

But, to be fair, Australia's border locking has helped.
The UK don't have any restrictions on people entering the country, no matter from where.
That's not very bright, however you look at it.

[Biscuit0110]

I think we should also urge caution whenever we compare stats. Almost certainly deaths are being vastly underreported in many countries. For instance Spain and Italy have not counted their care home and deaths at home into their total deaths for coronavirus.
A fine example is Ecuador’s Guayas province, there have been 10,000 more deaths than normal since the start of March, an increase of more than 300 per cent.

Many/most countries do not have a handle on the numbers, and in some cases the deaths. So it is premature to say the least.

I also feel the UK have done exceedingly well in terms of not having the hospitals overwhelmed in any way. The footage coming out of China, Italy and even New York of no beds, and people dying in the corridors. Nothing like that has happened here. We have had a bad case of it, no question, we were always going to, and we have managed well on the whole.

[Flaxmeadow]

Air travel was so easy in Western Europe. I know people who used to fly to Hamburg from Manchester just to go to a night club and return the next day. So many flights and so cheap. 50 quid here, £40 there. Where do we fancy going next weekend. Just hop on a Ryanair, Jet2, easyjet and your there an hour and a half later.

Poor Bergamo, a very popular airport and wouldnjave employed many local people. What always struck me about it was how confined it is, very cramped and very busy. Used for cheap flights into Milan or Venice from all over Western Europe. There must have been dozens from every day from the UK alone


France, Spain, Italy etc we all have similar trajectory.

So true

[eaglejulesk]

Australia has a population of 25 million. It's a huge island in the Pacific

You do realise most Australians live in cities, and there are large parts which are uninhabited?

I love how people keep telling us how busy Heathrow is. Can you tell me who is doing all this travelling now with most of the world in lockdown?

Australia and NZ did well as they acted quickly and also shut the borders. Stop trying to defend the UK's response which has been disgraceful.

[eaglejulesk]

Sydney is a tiny little place, no bigger than a large town in the UK

[chatwoo]

@Biscuit0110

Sydney is no London (in many ways) but it does have a population of over 5 million and is Australia's most populous city, closely followed by Melbourne

Did I miss the button when you said that it's a Sydney is a tiny little place, no bigger than a large town in the UK ?

[Biscuit0110]

flax We used to fly four times a month for business alone, and then weekends away to Paris on the eurostar, and skiing for long weekends. Most people in the UK travel all over Europe, Middle East and beyond just for a few days. It is part of our culture. Heathrow is the busiest airport in the world for good reason, with excellent connections not to just the UK but to Europe.

There have been mistake of course, because we have never dealt with a pandemic before, and many lessons have been learnt. However I am content that the patients have been very well cared for by our amazing NHS, the communities have pulled together, and there has been a great deal of positivity and love on the ground. Even our snowflakes have become resilient snowflakes :))

[Pootle40]

@sauron

600 people didn't die yesterday although I agree with your point. The deaths announced each day are those registered in the last 24 hours. If you look at the breakdown they go back weeks. So the actual daily death rate now is significantly lower. I'm not stating this to down play what has happened merely that it's not an accurate picture of the actual status. The number of people in hospital / ICU prob a better indicator.

[Biscuit0110]

We have been to Sydney a few times, it is a great city no question, but we were shocked that it was so small, and very quiet compared to other world cities. It feel more like a town than a city when you compare it to London (9million) New York (8 million) Moscow (11 million) Beijing (21 million) We have been to lots of cities and Sydney was by far one of the cleanest and quietest we have ever been to.

It was one of the things we liked about it, you could walk freely around, it was not crowded at all.

[Biscuit0110]

We had 1.6 million visitors to London alone last year, and that does not include all of the people coming for the day from inside the UK. It is packed and a perfect breeding ground for a virus.

[LeGrandBleu]

I am not sure we can say we have eradicated the virus. I see it more as we have hit the pause button on the DVD player. Everything is fine as long as we are in our island bubble with borders closed. When we open them to planes and cruise ships then we hit play on the recorder.
We are buying time and waiting for research to catch up with treatment or vaccine.

[Biscuit0110]

Sorry that should read 2.9 million visitors.

[Biscuit0110]

30 million visitors in total for London for the whole year!

Overseas visitors alone, I have made a mess of typing this out, but you get the picture. Trying to make breakfast and post at the same time.

[ellanwood]

Their lockdown is very different from our lockdown. A friend of mine in Perth has been meeting family for dinner, tea parties and BBQs. If she bumps into someone in the street they go off walking together. She's moved house since lockdown. She's had her hair done. It doesn;t seem like lockdown at all, to me.

[Biscuit0110]

My biggest concerns are not for Australia or the UK, but Brazil and south America actually.

[Leflic]

Shutting our borders isn’t as easy as that. We have a lot of people to feed and and we import a lot. I believe Australia has the capacity to be quite self sufficient.

[ChipsAreLife]

You can't deny Australia has done a good job, locking down borders was a good move, but they are so many complex variables that made that did make that easier for them. And I'm born and bred Aussie but have settled in the UK before I get flamed.

Im very proud of my heritage and the way they've been so strong with decision making but I really don't like the smug attitudes coming from my family in WA! They keep telling us how amazing they've done and the wonderful the sense of community is there and how sad we must be not having it in the UK 😬. Keep telling us to move back as it's safer, better etc.

I think comparisons to other countries are so unhelpful. For example sadly we know the virus is more severe for certain ethnic groups which are more prevalent in Europe. The UK, but England in particular is very crowded.

I'm really interested to see how NZ moves forward. Great the virus has gone but does that mean they isolate indefinitely?

The goal here has never been to eradicate the virus, but to not overwhelm the NHS. think they'll ease lockdown now so the NHS is better placed than in winter for a second peak.

[ChipsAreLife]

Not but England ... especially England!