Universal Credit should relax £16,000 savings eligibility rule

[DreamChaser23]

do you agree? This is to ensure other workers who were laid off and have 16k OR higher in savings should also be eligible for help.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dwp-must-change-universal-credit-21792760.amp

[Deathgrip]

They are far far more likely to be labour voters surely?

Have you read the thread? What a bizarre interpretation.

I have certainly never seen a labour voter say that anyone who could have saved, but didn’t, should be left to starve and live on the streets, just because the system is so unfair to them.

Never known a labour voter sitting on a huge amount of savings saying they are being shafted because they can’t access less than a hundred quid a week they don’t need.

[Mirada]

Nobody is saying that people should be left to starve and live on the streets. But when the National Insurance system was begun by Beveridge in 1948, it was based on the idea that what you took out related to what you had paid in. 'Insurance' it was called....the clue's in the name ! Over the years that link has been lost.....and there is I think widespread support for a greater return to the 'contributory principle'.

[Peppafrig]

Self inflicted illnesses don't make me laugh . Where do we stop . Stop treating people who are in car crashes as they choose to use it in the first place so self inflicted. Stop helping people who have disabled children as they could have had a termination so self inflicted. Plus they didn't have to get pregnant again self inflicted. You literally think you are above everyone don't you @Hester54 . Your the only person in the world to work . The only one . You will get the shock on your life if you do get UC .

[Deathgrip]

Nobody is saying that people should be left to starve and live on the streets.

I asked Hester whether she thought those who hadn’t saved should be given nothing to the point they were homeless and unable to buy food and she said yes. So some people are saying exactly that.

[HeIenaDove]

You know what i smell? FEAR! Fear that the pandemic will be the leveller that Matt Frei said it would.

[userxx]

userxx why do you think it unfair that cohabiting couples are treated like married ones? Been that way for benefits for many many years suspect you didn’t care until it has potential to affect YOU?

Well I wouldn't know as I've never had to use the system. I was surprised that my boyfriend of two years would be expected to live off my life savings before he could claim UC. Also it wouldn't affect me, it would affect HIM.

You sound like you've got a massive chip on your shoulder 🤷‍♂️

[jhj67]

I asked Hester whether she thought those who hadn’t saved should be given nothing to the point they were homeless and unable to buy food and she said yes. So some people are saying exactly that.

I don't think hester is a bad person, I think the tone of the argument, the speed of it, the accusations flying about, I think that's why she said yes, she agrees. (but I don't think she really agrees, if she takes the time to properly consider the question.)

Basically, I cannot imagine anyone begrudges that much, helping those who have horrible jobs and who still struggle. People begrudge those who massively abuse the benefits system and never intend to work, ever - these people may be 0.1% of those on benefits, but of course they get all the publicity and get in the papers and rile everyone up.

the views I have read on this thread have been illuminating to me, and the less bitter attacks there are, and the less escalation there is, the more opinions can be aired and calmly considered.

[jhj67]

I think the tone of the argument, the speed of it, the accusations flying about, I think that's why she said yes

what I'm trying to say is, in the heat of the moment, she said something that she may not have taken the time to fully take onboard and/or take the time to fully consider if she would want such a thing.

[Tonyaster]

You know what i smell? FEAR! Fear that the pandemic will be the leveller that Matt Frei said it would

It will cement the divide between rich and poor for a hundred years.

[TheMotherofAllDilemmas]

Good grief, I have not RTFT but I think many people who are prone to judge people in benefits as scroungers or work shy are going to finally learn the getting benefits and surviving on them is far from a walk in the park.

I just see so many people complaining about nobody picking up their calls or about how many weeks or months it takes to get a first payment and I feel like saying... erm... that is normal, that’s what all people in benefits experience.

Now then get a job stacking shelves, there are jobs out there...

[Deathgrip]

what I'm trying to say is, in the heat of the moment, she said something that she may not have taken the time to fully take onboard and/or take the time to fully consider if she would want such a thing.

I disagree. I asked her explicitly if that’s what she thought should happen - it wasn’t implied, it was explicit. and she said yes, that’s what should happen if people haven’t saved.

I was not surprised by the response because it is the logical conclusion of what she’s been arguing throughout this thread. If she doesn’t really think that people who haven’t had the ability or foresight to save should be left to suffer with nothing then maybe she will reconsider her viewpoint.

And that’s not even getting into the societal consequences of not financially supporting those who have nothing (regardless of the reasons why). People need to eat. Do we want more crime, more burglaries, more muggings, looting? Believe me, the tories don’t give people benefits because they’re terribly benevolent. The impact on all of us if millions of people can’t afford to meet their basic fundamental needs would be horrific.

[Graphista]

@HelenaDove yep! Fear that they will be treated exactly the same as the “unworthy poor” they’ve happily voted to have screwed over for the last 10 years

“Well I wouldn't know as I've never had to use the system” that’s a pathetic excuse for taking no interest in the effects of this system on others until it could affect you.

And yes it does affect you as in your words it’s your savings that will have to be used until he can claim.

You didn’t even answer the question.

Not a chip on my shoulder just righteous indignation at the greed, entitlement and hypocrisy being openly and unashamedly displayed on this thread.

Those of us disabled, carers etc and on benefits for the last 10’years and being treated like shit by the govt, vilified by the MSM and insulted repeatedly on sm inc here are sickened that now when those who were more than happy to stick the boot in are now bitching about receiving a TINY glimpse of how that feels TEMPORARILY!

Think this is bad dealing with this for a max of a few months? Try living with it for fucking years!

[JustAnotherPoster00]

Think this is bad dealing with this for a max of a few months? Try living with it for fucking years!

^^ This

As usual Graphista and Deathgrip say what I want to say in such an eloquent way much better than I ever could.

Just wait till you get your first sanction, for any spurious reason your work coach can think of, I'll look forward to the threads of howling indignation

[Deathgrip]

Oh but sanctions are only for those lazy people who can’t tear their arse away from the sofa and their Xbox, or are too stupid to tell the time, or too pissed to know what day it is.

They would never sanction one of the decent people, they’ll just be given a free pass as obviously they’d have a very worthy reason for being late.

🙄

[ivykaty44]

Unfortunately sanctions seem to occur for very spurious reasons that are very hard to fathom.

[userxx]

@Graphista Get off your high horse you know absolutely nothing about me what I do and the people I help. So what, I didn't know that cohabitating meant you could stake a claim on the others savings. Why would I know that?

I find it insulting that you assume the people who don't use the system look down their noses at the people who do. Its fucking rude and untrue.

[Xenia]

When the system was set up and even when I was younger there was a massive difference between benefits if you had paid full NI and then a very basic benefit for those who had not - i think it was unemployment benefit for those with NI when I was young and supplementary benefit (much much lower) for those with no NI so no the basis you paid in you took out. We lost that. It is the same with state pensions - 35 years full time NI paid and you get full state pension, never work a day in your life and you get pension credit and housing benefit which can be MORE than a state pension. Something went very wrong.

[thetwinkletoescollective]

There are inter playing threads of personal responsibility and privilege (I hate the term but it explains what I mean succinctly). I have benefitted from certain privileges: I had a stable home life, a Secondary school that was able to channel students to uni, a full grant from govt etc.

But I still had to take personal responsibility along the way regarding temping rather than claiming benefit. Leaving my 5 month baby to work full time.

Benefits for the healthy and of work age, must be there to support the a basic standard of living. No more. The tax payer should not be responsible for others personal responsibility/choices.

Tax should go towards equalising opportunities that the privilege gives to enable people to work, such as the grants for uni, sure start centres, youth clubs in deprived areas- socially brilliant and tackleing grass roots problems- not around anymore ..

[YouAreTheEggManIAmTheWalrus]

@thetwinkletoescollective I don’t think anyone would ever dispute that. I think you’re missing the point entirely and have clearly swallowed MSM bullshit unquestioningly.

@HelenaDove I agree there’s so much fear talking, and it certainly will a great leveller. I don’t wish anyone to lose their business or livelihoods. But what I would wish for is greater compassion, humanity and empathy and this crisis will hopefully deliver that in spades to our broken society.

[BigChocFrenzy]

I live in Germany and before I retired recently, I had compulsory unemployment insurance

If I had ever become unemployed, I would have received generous unemployment pay

• I don't know it it was for 1 or for 2 years -

regardless of whether I had a million Euros in saving

However, I paid a lot for this every month out of my salary

If people want contributory insurance .... you have to pay for it

Now imagine the squeals if every worker takes home less ever month because of this

• "it only happens every 100 years" etc

If everyone demands the highest possible net pay,
with lower tax - so far fewer doctors and hospital beds than e.g. Germany -
and without contribution-related insurance

... this is what happens

[Xenia]

BigChoc we do in a sense pay for it. I have paid full national insurance contributions without a single break since 1983 and so far not had a penny back from it. It is about 12% of employee pay that employees pay into it and 13% for employers. We seem to have the worst of all worlds in the UK - no reward for doing the right thing and working hard etc etc.

Anyway the bottom line remains as ever never rely on the state to keep you. God helps those who help themselves in life.

[JustAnotherPoster00]

We seem to have the worst of all worlds in the UK - no reward for doing the right thing and working hard etc etc.

I wonder in the last decade who could have put such a thing in place?

[Graphista]

@userxx not assumption - experience! Not knowing belies a previous lack of interest in how benefits policy affects the poorest and least able to advocate for themselves in society which belies a lack of care for those people.

Which I do think is unacceptable. I've no time for people who "never watch the news" or otherwise don't bother to inform themselves about the country in which they're living and it's politicians are behaving.

I suspect you're reacting out of shame.

@BigChocFrenzy well said! NI which was originally intended for such things was long ago stopped from being ringfenced and hasn't been raised appropriately in amount.

I worked full time over 20 years and part time almost 30 before becoming too unwell to work (although to be honest I could have been still working IF the govt and employers in this country weren't previously so resistant to people working at home. I'm actually hoping this current situation MAY make it easier for me to get back into work in the near future).

NI Levels are a pittance and should be raised and ringfenced for welfare payments.

[teainthetardis]

Ah, OP you’re one of those people who fell for David Cameron’s talk about ‘people who’ve done the right thing’.

Here’s the thing about benefits. The thing they really ought to do is protect the people most in need. If, in the process, they accidentally reward some people who haven’t scrimped and saved like you but could have, well... so be it. If someone else has spent more money on things, so they have more things than you, and now they get this handout and you have to spend your savings, well... so be it.

Because ‘is it fair if I have to use my savings’ is not the right question.

The right question is: will this help the people most in need? Right now it barely does that, or arguably doesn’t.

You and your savings pot cannot and should not be the determining factor, yeah?

You arguably could / should have bought some sort of income protection insurance (although not everyone can get this - I was refused due to my terrible health).

Thing is, if you had less money, you too could get help from the state. But you don’t need it. You just want it.

[teainthetardis]

We seem to have the worst of all worlds in the UK - no reward for doing the right thing and working hard etc etc.

You have thousands in the bank? That’s your reward.