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From present ideas to party food, find all your Christmas inspiration here.

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From present ideas to party food, find all your Christmas inspiration here.

Christmas

Christmas in mixed religion households

42 replies

EdithSimcox · 25/09/2015 14:24

We are already arguing in my house about who will be going to church and when and with whom. Atheist DP thinks no-one should go at all ever. In the past I've gone with the DPs to midnight mass; the DCs have gone to a carol service or kids service in the run-up to Christmas but nothing on the day / eve. I'd be happy with that kind of compromise again, though DP feels more threatened by it all this year and wants to ban the DCs from going at all.

Do other families have this issue? Any ideas on good compromises?

OP posts:

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EdithSimcox · 27/09/2015 20:27

It's the former Blu. I'm struggling enough with my own faith to even think of bringing anyone else along for the ride. It's just the tradition thing really.

caps yes they are all at school. dd1 does some of this stuff at school but dc2and3 are at a very secular school. Strength in numbers is a good idea maybe, though it could play both ways - DP might think we're all ganging up...

Obviously as many if you have said we'll just have to ask them, and agree to let them do whatever they want. I'm sure they'd rather not have to decide for themselves though;despite our best efforts I doubt they are completely unaware that the issue is causing friction between us.

OP posts:

Blu · 27/09/2015 09:00

What is your main feeling in wanting to take your children? Is it still the cultural education thing? The sense of occasion, the experience of a carol service?

Or is it that you would like them, in your heart of hearts, to share your faith, that you want them alongside you in your relationship to your God?

If it is the second there is a battle of ideology going in with your kids as the fulcrum.

I am positive about DC experiencing cultural and religious beliefs, but I become uncomfortable if DP ever tries to instil a particular approach that I do not agree with, whether it be politics, moral arguments or whatever. "M1 believes this, M2 believes that, isn't it interesting that we all think different things and can make different choices" is fine. Pulling different ways is bad.

If it is purely the cultural experience (and inevitably an introduction into a church context within which your kids can make up their own mind) then your DW is being unreasonable, controlling, and / or not trusting you that this is the case.

If you are secretly or unconsciously hoping to actively influence the DC then there is s different problem.

Have you considered couples counselling to talk through how you both handle this aspect of your relationship? Not Christmas specifically, but different beliefs?

Chocolateorangegirl · 27/09/2015 08:14

Well my DH is an atheist and I'm a Hindu and my little one goes to all my festivals, it's a huge part of our culture. He sees it as being informed and enjoys the colour and chaos.

We also partake in Christmas festivities and while I wouldn't actively go to church I am looking forward to seeing my DD as a more skin colour accurate Mary one day ( she's a lovely latte colour) . Wouldn't mind the in laws taking her to a carol service either but non of them are particularly religious.

icklekid · 27/09/2015 08:03

I know that you don't want your dc to take sides but the only way to be fair is to say your going to carol concert dp isn't and it's fine whichever they choose. Both you and your dp have to accept they are able and allowed to choose and change their mind in a year's time...1

capsium · 27/09/2015 07:58

Are your DC school age? Could you 'do' the church stuff through school? Our school had carol concerts at the local church.

Can you spend time with extended family and do some church stuff with them? Would your DP object to this? Sort of strength in numbers...

goblin you say that children are born without religion. This is a belief of yours, one that I do not necessarily agree with, according to my own set of beliefs. If you are saying this is not a belief where is your proof?

goblinhat · 27/09/2015 07:21

Religion - or lack of is a fairly fundamental thing in my family. I have lost most of my immediate family to religion.

If my OH decided to become a christian it would be a deal breaker.

StitchingMoss · 26/09/2015 21:50

Edith, that's how you see it but your DP may see it differently.

HellKitty · 26/09/2015 08:23

I'm an aethist but have been to after pub carol services on Christmas Eve before. DP is an aethist who wouldn't even consider going to one.

My DCs are all aethist but not because I've forced them to, they went to Christian school where they'd question the RS teacher - usually ending in detention. If they wanted to follow any path I'd support them, it's their call.

goblinhat · 26/09/2015 07:53

CharleyDavidson

Ok, semantic however. I take it you have a "belief" in the non existence of Unicorn, or the Goddess Kali.

It's hardly a faith.

Not believing in Unicorns ( or God) cannot be compared to a religion.

ilovelamp82 · 26/09/2015 07:22

How old are your children?

If they are young enough just to see it as some carol singing and a nice tradition then I don't see the harm.

If they are old enough to know what it is all about then I think the choice has to be theirs and no one elses.

EdithSimcox · 26/09/2015 07:21

purple yes that's me. It is not easy for either of us. But stiching I'm not trying to convert the DC. I just think it's nice to go to a carol service at Christmas.

OP posts:

CharleyDavidson · 25/09/2015 23:20

I think that atheisim is a belief. The belief that there is no God. It's a valid position to have, but shouldn't trump the beliefs of the non-athiest.

PurpleDaisies · 25/09/2015 23:15

Apologies op I hadn't realised you had a DP not a DH. Bells are ringing now - have you posted before about the difficulties you've been having in your relationship relating to your Christianity? If I've got the right poster then the Christmas issue is a symptom of the underlying issue which is that your partner can't or won't accept you going to church (even without the kids). Have you got any further with resolving that? It must be really hard being with someone who fundamentally disagrees with such a big part of your life.

goblinhat · 25/09/2015 23:13

A belief is a faith.

Atheism is a lack of faith.

Not playing football cannot be classed as a sport.

NeverNic · 25/09/2015 23:10

Goblin - a belief is a personal option. As I am not an atheist, I don't share your point of view but will be polite about it.

OP, I'm going to bow out on this one. I hope you get some practical advice here.

StitchingMoss · 25/09/2015 22:59

Really tricky one.

I wouldn't let my MIL take the DC to a Christian service on her own because I would be concerned about reinforcing indoctrination. I would go with them if pushed because then i would know what was being said/encouraged.

If your DP married you as an atheist and you've now "come out" as a Christian, that's hard for her. i would be very upset if dh suddenly told me he'd decided to become a Christian and he wanted to encourage the DC to follow suit. This is not a path I would have chosen.

Hobbitfeet32 · 25/09/2015 22:53

I was brought up in a mixed religion house and have married someone of a different religion to both my parents. Our children are being brought up to embrace all cultures and religions, to join in with any celebrations they may be privileged to be welcomed to and to respect all types of beliefs people may have. They have free choice to believe what they want to and hopefully will be exposed to as much cultural variety as possible. Joining in with other religious celebrations to your own does non necessarily have to influence your own beliefs but in my experience only enriches a persons life.

goblinhat · 25/09/2015 22:42

enforcing his non-belief

That's ridiculous.

Like forcing a child into being a non-stamp collector.

Children are born with no notion of god or belief- how can you enforce a natural way of being?

NeverNic · 25/09/2015 22:39

Okay, I think it is getting a bit AIBU. Maybe my choice of 'right' isn't correct here, but blanket banning them going to any service to me says that he is enforcing his non-belief, and that doesn't sound fair to Op or his children because it's removing any aspect of choice when it was there before. This situation is one that's only happened since op became more committed. Last year her husband permitted his children going to services, so the children haven't been brought up purely as atheists. Also I don't think any child becomes a practicing Christian off the back of a carol service.

goblinhat · 25/09/2015 21:53

encourage atheism.

But atheism is the default position. Children are born without knowledge of a god or any belief in one. Atheism has no dogma- it is a lack of belief.

You talk of "rights". What about the rights of the children?

Perhaps this father want his children to grow up unbiased so they have a clean slate to decide for themselves which faith if any they choose to follow.

I would agree if the OP and her OH were at odds over Christianity or Islam for instance- in which case each would have an equal "right" to impose their faith.
But bringing up a child free of indoctrination is simply preserving their right to choose for themselves when they are consenting adults.

The child's rights are far more important that the parents'.

NeverNic · 25/09/2015 21:44

I agree with Peso's first point and with Purple. Make it 'would you like to come' rather than 'you must pick'.

I would say that you have as much right though to encourage your Christian views as he does to encourage atheism.

PurpleDaisies · 25/09/2015 18:35

You and your dp need to work out some way to make the kids feel like it's ok whether then go or not. That's not a conversation to have around the kids.

I think it would be better for them to actively choose up go to the church service so you could concede that the default will be that they're not coming unless they say they want to. It would be really unfair to put them in the position of choosing which parent they want to upset so you and your dp need to try and come to some sort of agreement about it before involving them.

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EdithSimcox · 25/09/2015 18:12

No of course not. We're not. They would be astonished that we are even talking about it. But if it did come up, they would almost certainly just go with the flow. Which means that we need to pre-decide what flow they are expected to go with... does that make sense?
With the best will in the world I'm not sure it would be possible to present it as a purely open question. It would go like this:
'do you want to go to a carol service this year?'
'are you going?
'yes'
'is M1 going?'
'no'
'I don't know then'

OP posts:

goblinhat · 25/09/2015 18:11

I don't think it is a pedant point, I think it's quite important.

Your OH is atheist- all kids are born with no belief too. Presumably your OH wants to keep them that way.
THis isn't a conflict between two faiths, it's a conflict between indoctrination or none.

PesoPenguin · 25/09/2015 18:06

I thint that's kind of my point; your dh shouldn't be putting them in the position of feeling guilty for wanting to go to a flaming carol concert ( although you shouldn't be making them feel guilty if they don't want to too). It's not fair on the kids.

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