Dream Birth Location?

[SophieJaneC]

Hello everyone!

I'm an architecture student at Bath University and am currently designing a Birth Centre. I'd be really grateful if anyone has had their baby in a birth centre or is going to, why they chose the birth centre (or Midwife Led Unit) over a hospital or home birth?
Was there a feature that you particularly loved or even hated?
Or if you decided against a Birth Centre, what was your reason?

Basically, if you could design your dream environment to give birth in, what you you pick?? Even if it's on top a mountain in the middle of nowhere, I'd love to hear!

I'm very grateful for any responses!

Thank you

[minifingerz]

Fuckoff, stop being so professionally offended and defensive.

Birth and life with a small baby are dominated by hormones. If using synto suppresses the production of oxytocin then why shouldn't it have some effect on the experience of an event (meeting your baby) where we know hormones play a powerful part?

And I say that as someone who has had syntoconon in two labours out of three.

I would love someone to do some really good research into this issue, though no doubt it would be greeted by women shouting about 'being made to feel guilty'. So much for science and biology. Your self image matters more

[FuckOffDailyMailQuitQuotingMN]

I will continue to feel and think what I like, thanks, as long as it is not to the detriment of an already disenfranchised group of people such as pregnant and birthing women.

[TheresABluebirdOnMyShoulder]

Why then can I not take any credit for my positive outcome?
Is it really so important to you to be given "credit" for your births? It's strange to be so desperate to feel superior to other mothers.

why is childbirth exempt from judgement?
Why are you judging people at all?

So all the walking and swimming to stay fit and a healthy weight were a waste of time?
No, not a waste of time. There are things that can be done to help improve the chances of a positive outcome for mothers and babies. I haven't seen anybody say otherwise. However, it does not automatically follow that a poor outcome is always the result of poor decision making or for lack of trying. Whatever you say, there is a huge element of luck at play and it's silly to pretend otherwise. All that you can do is improve your chances of a positive birth. You cannot guarantee it which is why you shouldn't judge women who are not lucky enough to have a positive experience.

We might know that one intervention often leads to the next and to the next, but sometimes it really is necessary. So it's about making the right call based on the information available at the time. That's all that any of us can do. The pressure is immense. And it's not helpful to have somebody who knows absolutely nothing about anyone else's personal situation blithely stating that we must have made poor decisions otherwise we'd have surely had a "perfect birth".

As for your friend, if there was truly no clinical need for an induction (and she may well not have told you the full details of her personal medical situation) then it's not a decision that I would personally have taken, no. And whilst there is a fair chance that this contributed to her subsequent interventions, it didn't "undoubtedly" do so. How can you possibly know that for certain? You just can't. At the end of the day she made a choice based on the information that was given to her. How does it help her for you to cast judgement? How does that help anybody?

[FuckOffDailyMailQuitQuotingMN]

Here is your credit:

Maushart describes childbirth as “a lottery”, claiming that, “a woman who gives birth easily deserves as much credit for her ‘accomplishment’ as a woman who moves her bowels easily”.

She is right and it pains me to admit it, since I would prefer to take credit for my own intervention-free labours, even while knowing these are no more achievements on my part than my miscarriage was a failure.

It is pathetic, the tally we keep, as though that is where the meaning lies – not in the fact that you belong to a class that holds the power of life itself, but in whether or not you had gas and air, pethidine, an epidural, forceps, ventouse, a caesarean, whatever it took to get fresh, wriggling personhood out of you and breathing on its own.

What a way to dampen down the post-birth surge, that fleeting moment when you might be able, as a woman, to look at your own body and think: “I am not the Other. I’m the One. Women are the One.”

Read the article. Please do.

[AyeAmarok]

Hear hear Fuck and Bluebird.

[FreddoFrog]

OP, please tour the Birth Centre at St Mary's, Paddington. We had all 3 of our babies there, 2 water births - and all were excellent experiences. Very organised centre, caring midwives. A lift ride away from the full obstetrics hospital and NICU etc. Best of luck in your work.

[oldlaundbooth]

Each mother should have their own room and private bathroom. Like a Travelodge, doesn't have to be fancy.

That's a start.

[ispymincepie]

So all the walking and swimming to stay fit and a healthy weight were a waste of time?
No, not a waste of time. There are things that can be done to help improve the chances of a positive outcome for mothers and babies. I haven't seen anybody say otherwise. However, it does not automatically follow that a poor outcome is always the result of poor decision making or for lack of trying. Whatever you say, there is a huge element of luck at play and it's silly to pretend otherwise. All that you can do is improve your chances of a positive birth. You cannot guarantee it which is why you shouldn't judge women who are not lucky enough to have a positive experience. I said there wasn't always a correlation but if we are able to take these steps to improve our chances of a normal delivery, why can I not include declining epidural without being called sanctimonious?
I would never judge anyone who didn't have a good birth, I've acknowledged luck plays a part, I judge those who make ill-informed decisions whether or not they have negative consequences.

Why are you judging people at all?
I'm not a total bitch and have said I never call people on anything in real life, there would be no point after the fact but we all silently judge people all the time about all sorts of things and to pretend you don't, well who's being sanctimonious?

And FuckOff I did read the article, doesn't mean it's right or that I have to agree with any of it.

[holepunchkid]

I'm afraid I am rather smug because I have had perfect births and while I accept a small element of that is luck, I genuinely believe it's mostly down to my approach.

Oh bless
How sweet and amazingly naive
You keep thinking that pottering, I'm sure it gives you comfort to know that every woman who had a bad birth experience was to blame for it.

[TheresABluebirdOnMyShoulder]

I didn't call you sanctimonious for declining an epidural. Why are you making things up? I myself declined pain relief that crosses the blood-brain barrier HOWEVER I acknowledge that this was a personal decision and I was lucky that it was do-able for me at the time. It is not something that I feel the need to be congratulated for, nor do I feel superior to other mothers who made different choices, possibly under different circumstances.

I'm not a total bitch and have said I never call people on anything in real life
And what do you think we are? Imaginary pixies? You might not be speaking face to face, but the people who are reading your words are real and the potential damage you are doing is to their 'real lives'.

And no, I don't "silently judge people all the time". I doubt that many of us do. I'm too busy living my own life.

[TheresABluebirdOnMyShoulder]

I'm going to bow out now because to be honest this is like banging my head against a brick wall. Clearly we have very different opinions and I think it's best left at that. I'm glad that anybody finding this thread at a vulnerable time (googling interventions etc.) will at least have a few sympathetic and sensitive opinions to read as well as the overly judgemental and critical ones for balance.

OP, I'm really sorry that we've completely derailed your thread. It's exceptionally bad form and I hope that you've got some useful information from other posters along the way. Best of luck with your project.

[ispymincepie]

And what do you think we are? Imaginary pixies? You might not be speaking face to face, but the people who are reading your words are real and the potential damage you are doing is to their 'real lives'
I can't damage anybody's life by having a differing opinion to them. Again, if they are happy with their decisions then nothing I say will have them doubting themselves or thinking they did anything wrong. And I don't think I started this, I have only been defending myself in the same way I would if I was spoken to this way in real life. I didn't realise suggesting that we have an element of control in our birthing was such a controversial idea. I've repeatedly acknowledged there is some luck involved. I have had four dcs, healthy pregnancies, no losses, easy deliveries resulting in healthy children. I don't plan on having any more as I do worry my good luck may run out.
I do find it sad though that women are unable to share their positive experiences of childbirth, a monumentally empowering event for lots of us, for fear of offending others who haven't experienced it like that. It's no wonder that horror stories spread and fear is perpetuated.

[TheresABluebirdOnMyShoulder]

You have zero empathy or compassion, which is why this conversation is going nowhere. You are also deliberately twisting my words which makes a meaningful discussion impossible. Nobody is upset to hear about a positive birth story, of course you can share a good story without causing offense. What you can't do is make assumptions and criticise somebody else's choices when they weren't quite so lucky and expect not to ruffle some feathers.

If you really can't understand why it would be damaging to somebody who has had a fairly traumatic experience and is therefore in a vulnerable place to hear somebody tell them that it's their fault that they didn't have a "perfect birth", I don't know what to say.

You had no need to defend yourself because nobody has criticised your choices. Obviously what you did worked for you. Unfortunately you are unable to extend that same courtesy to others.

[randomsabreuse]

Next to CLU would be my main thing. I made the choice of the relatively dingy old MLU on the hospital campus over the newer on much closer to home. Got there in the morning - 2cm - bog off, came back 90 minutes later, waited 30 minutes for an exam - 7cm, meconium in waters, transfer up to CLU, 10cm at that point - then 2hrs plus of pushing before monitor started showing HR dips and we went with a ventouse - which was relatively easy. Had some stitches. Cord was wrapped around her foot.

This was at 38 +4 ish but I'm very short cycling and she was definitely "cooked".

No cascade of interventions there - I couldn't cope with an active labour - it hurt too much, possibly as a lot of the dilatation stage was in the car... never had long contractions either - probably hence the ventouse...

Birth part was great once in consultant led - ward was ok - major wish would be variable lighting and a source of savoury food other than crisps - could be paid for but needs to be close and convenient!

[TheresABluebirdOnMyShoulder]

Man, I can't believe I got sucked back in. Hiding thread!

[sycamore54321]

I am shocked by the 'perfect birth' posters on this thread and wish to lend my voice in support of FU and others talking sense. Birth is inherently dangerous for mothers and babies, and always has been up until the advent of modern obstetrics. It may be that certain interventions are 'unnecessary' in that the baby would have been fine anyway but the trouble is the present state of technology and medical knowledge is such that we cannot say for certain which cases would end badly without intervention and which would be just fine. If there is a risk of death or brain damage or physical injury to my baby, I am very happy to have whatever interventions are recommended. The alternative is too awful for me. Right now, the only way to know, for example, which breech babies didn't need a section would be to perform no sections and see which babies are dead or injured. This is not acceptable to me, and luckily not to the mainstream medical thinking either.


A couple of other points in case anyone is reading this and undecided. The cascade of interventions has never been proven - correlation may be there for some but not causation.

And as for bonding and hormones, I say horseshit. I love my babies because I am a sentient human being and have emotional intelligence and have cared for them with love. The same as my husband, the same as adoptive parents or step-parents do their family. I feel sorry for anyone who believes their love is so fragile that it depends on some hormones in a few hours and that they need to do some specific physical steps to achieve this. I believe love is way stronger than that. It does not depend on how I use my body in childbirth.

To answer the OP, sterile clean consultant unit with a world class NICU on the same floor is my ideal. Dim lights etc is all nonsense in my view.

[PotteringAlong]

I'm afraid I am rather smug because I have had perfect births and while I accept a small element of that is luck, I genuinely believe it's mostly down to my approach.

Oh bless
How sweet and amazingly naive
You keep thinking that pottering, I'm sure it gives you comfort to know that every woman who had a bad birth experience was to blame for it.

It wasn't me who said it! I copied it from a previous poster and commented with lots of laughter! If you're going to be rude to me at least be accurate

[ispymincepie]

It may be that certain interventions are 'unnecessary' in that the baby would have been fine anyway but the trouble is the present state of technology and medical knowledge is such that we cannot say for certain which cases would end badly without intervention and which would be just fine. If there is a risk of death or brain damage or physical injury to my baby, I am very happy to have whatever interventions are recommended. The alternative is too awful for me.
It has already been established that for every baby saved by intervention, another baby will have been put at risk by unnecessary intervention. I have read several times on this thread people saying they wouldn't consider a MLU away from a Consultant/theatre/nicu because they 'couldn't take that risk'. My whole point that started this in the first place is that there are inherent risks purely by being in a hospital but nobody likes to acknowledge that apparently. So while Bluebird and others can claim nobody has attacked me personally, I have listened repeatedly to people insinuating I have taken unnecessary risks by choosing to birth in private.
To answer the OP, sterile clean consultant unit with a world class NICU on the same floor is my ideal. Dim lights etc is all nonsense in my view.
It's not nonsense, it helps create a calmer atmosphere which is conducive to the correct production of birthing hormones. Too much adrenaline for instance has the following affects (taken from childbirthconnection)-
Causing distress to the baby before birth.
Causing contractions to stop, slow or have an erratic pattern, and lengthening labor.
Creating a sense of panic and increasing pain in the mother.
Leading health care providers to respond to these problems with cesarean surgery and other interventions.
You might like to assume that low lighting, calming music, aromatherapy is all superficial nonsense but in reality it goes a very long way towards making birth a safer experience.

[Prettybaffled]

I don't see any need to polarise here. As Olivia of mnhq would probably say - peace and love guys.

No one should judge others' experience and it's impossible to work out whether any one intervention was caused by being in hospital or what any mother did/didn't do.

As a hospital and homebirther I can say I know my pphs are not iatrogenic as I had one at home with no intervention whatsoever.

I still believe that generally the overall stats from the birthplace study show that birth outside a hospital clu for a low risk mother is safer. So I think that tends to show the cascade of intervention in action.

Stats show exercise and perineal massage, birth prep etc all five better likely outcomes. To go back to the op, a wonderful birthing environment can only help and I wouldn't be surprised if it was statistically significant over the longer term compared with a very stressful harshly lit building.

But it's all about choice. If people want to use the clu, have an epidural or an elective c section then of course they should have he right to do that.

And having had a rather medicalised end to both my births I would never judge anyone whose top priority is access to icu/theatre in case the worst happens.

[ispymincepie]

PrettyBaffled I think you're the most sensible one here-well played. Am going to leave it here Good Luck OP.

[holepunchkid]

It wasn't me who said it! I copied it from a previous poster and commented with lots of laughter! If you're going to be rude to me at least be accurate

oops
apologies

[FuckOffDailyMailQuitQuotingMN]

Of course you can't agree with or take anything away from the NewStatesman article, ispy because it totally annihilates your position as the birthing saviour of all of the so-called under-invested, in-prepared women who ended up having difficulties.

[FuckOffDailyMailQuitQuotingMN]

I didn't realise suggesting that we have an element of control in our birthing was such a controversial idea.

It isn't a controversial idea. If you want to feel smug about pushing your babies out then great. It's about the same level of smugness you should feel at being great at emptying your bowels as far as I'm concerned. You know exactly what is "controversial" and that is telling other women that unless they do it your way they are doing it wrong. That is divisive and oppressive and ridiculous.

[Prettybaffled]

Daily mail, you are entitled to your point of view and I haven't read the article.

We spend a lot of time talking about physical processes and how we experience them - eating, sex and birth eg. We invest many of these with a worth and value far beyond the physical facts of the relevant event. Look at everything invested in how we do our hair which is just stuff hanging off our heads!

I don't view eating a lovely meal as akin to a trip to the ladies. Or birth!

For me, and I know this is not true for everyone birth was an amazing and powerful experience which took me to my emotional, physical and mental limits. Despite pphs and urgent medical treatment my births remain a very powerful and valuable memory. That was my own experience.

To get back to the op, thanks for asking this question op - very thought provoking.

[FuckOffDailyMailQuitQuotingMN]

Daily mail, you are entitled to your point of view and I haven't read the article.
I don't understand your point - I should hope that we are all entitled to our own opinion. There is only one person here as far as I can tell who is telling women that their opinion is wrong and it sure as hell isn't me.

Fine you haven't read the article - your point is? Few people reads links on MN, it's kind of a joke to link to articles, especially long ones. I do know that.

I am not invested in any opinion here about birthing so I don't have any agenda one way or the other. What I will not do is sit by and listen to women (both here and in general) be blamed and judged (to no good end) and be "called out" by someone who has no good intent other than to proselytise their message to the disregard of other women, attack women as being derelict in their responsibility (without any wider social context which is both ignorant and dangerous) and then have the audacity to say they "just want to share positive stories" and "they are on your side". How disingenuous. No one here is denying that person their opinion yet they decry how "I do find it sad though that women are unable to share their positive experiences of childbirth" What insane fuckery is that?!

I won't let it go, I don't care if I have to keep repeating myself and look ridiculous. I don't care.

"We have people who will never know what it is like to live in our skin telling us just how much pain our nerves can stand, how much that skin can stretch, how much a woman should bear for the sake of the greater good. It is pure misogyny.

Peace and love indeed.