So apparently... (rips and tears)

[FrizzBombDelight]

So apparently modern women are more prone to rips during labour because no one squats to shit anymore.... does anyone out there know anything about this or have any experience?!

I think it's how you are made to a point. I did raspberry leaf tea, I had 2 waterbirths, textbook - no pain relief, both times Midwife's telling me to push and I had 2nd/3rd degree tearing. To be honest though when I got to crowning and a midwife saying push with some urgency in her voice I just wanted my baby safely out!

Before birth I was terrified of tearing or being cut.

However with DD1 I was cut and DD2 I had a tear. It really wasn't the end of the world. Both were pretty small, stitched neatly and healed easily.

Obviously I know some tears are horrendous. But just wanted to say they aren't all awful, not by any means.

I had the opposite experience to many on here. I squat a lot (rower so lots of cross training involving squatting and lunging). I was still doing squats in my exercise routines up to week 38 of pregnancy.

Still needed episiotomy and had 2nd degree labial tearing. So squatting did sweet FA for me!

Ho hum.

OP are you in the UK? IMO the best thing you can do to avoid a tear is to refuse forceps. Make it clear on your notes and shout or threaten to sue during labour if necessary.

Yes in the U.K. I assumed forceps were only used if absolutely necessary? I'm obviously totally clueless on this matter and have a lot of reading up to do! How did women deal with this centuries ago? This is why the squatting thing rang true for me.

if absolutely necessary = if healthcare professionals feel they can avoid a section. Less trouble for them, long-term effects of bad tear for you.

OhToBlazes forceps with a very compromised baby if cervix fully dilated can mean a better outcome than spending time transferring to theatre for a section.

2 children no tears or rips. Grazes and hurt like fuck. I gave birth to my first pretty much stood up and laid down for second

I don't think drs should still be using forceps in the UK. Ventouse perhaps but not forceps. They should really be intervening before baby is severely compromised. Women's long-term health should matter more.

Is there a lower incidence of tearing in cultures where squat toilets are the norm (eh Vietnam/Laos?

Glitterspy, I'd love to know the answer to this!

I'm not sure is it's just toilets but rather squatting as mode of moving and resting. Right now I'm sitting g on a couch so my pelvic floor tjieghs and abs are doing barely any work

I think it's more complicated than just squats vs no squats!
Positioning in labour is really important in avoiding tears etc. Obviously not foolproof/universal (as many of the posters on this thread have pointed out!) but generally you have a much better chance of a natural birth with minimal tearing if you're upright, in the pool or whatever, rather than on your back on the bed with an epidural.
2 normal births here - 1st degree tear both times (second time hardly counted - mw described it as "a nick"), no stitches, healed up in no time. Laid on left side with DC1 and hands and knees with DC2 - didn't push at the crucial moment either time, just breathed through it and let the babies come of their own accord.
Read up on positioning during labour and the cascade of intervention. Know your rights and facts, but keep an open mind and remember that there is no huge medical conspiracy - HCPs want a healthy mum and baby just as much as you do. Good luck OP!

Never heard that before, but I did a lot of squats from 37 weeks onwards in the hope that it would encourage my DD further down and help bring on labour... Lol, I had a small tear, they weren't going to stitch initially but it was a little deep. Healing process was fine though, didn't bother me at all.

Glitterspy
I suspect many cultures live in the blissful ignorance that tears happen.
Isn't more convenient to pretend a problem does not exist at all rather than look at its complexity?

I think centuries ago is perhaps not the best parallel to draw. Centuries ago - if something went tits up that today would necessitate c section, urgent instrumental delivery, significant intervention of any variety - that would have been the end of you, or the baby, or both. Tears would have been the least of one'a worries.

This is why it infuriates me that women are still looked down upon (albeit by a minority of people) for not pursuing a "natural" experience above all else on the basis that "your body is designed to do it".

Errrr, that's not really how it works. Yes, in principle, with the marvels of modern obstetrics you've a jolly good chance of everything going fine, but humans are rather like guinea pigs in this respect - badly evolved insofar as birth is concerned.

Before we had the knowledge and technical ability to intervene in a birth where required, you had a pretty colossal chance of not making it. So in reality, going purely by observable effect, the human birth process is "designed" to carry a significant risk of fatal failure, and a very significant risk of substantial damage e.g. obstetric fistula - which are still, lest we forget, rife in parts of the world where obstetric medicine is less advanced.

Apologies, that was far far rantier than intended!

FWIW - I've had two very different births and tore for both.

My first was induced, on my back for monitoring, with an epidural. Pushed for about 90 minutes, was being threatened with forceps, gave an almighty effort and got DD1 out in one push. 2nd degree tear in two directions, perineum and labia. Lots of stitches (with lots of local anaesthetic!)

Second was absolutely textbook. Water birth, pushed for maybe 15 minutes, slow head delivery, body didn't come out until a second contraction, all extremely controlled and gentle. Second degree tear, plenty of stitches again.

I think that's just how I'm built. The only long term effect it has had is that it's a bit sore in certain positions with DH now (mainly from behind) but I suspect it's a scar tissue issue rather than the stitching or tearing itself.

Don't know if it's been said but water birth is really good for not getting a tear. I had a really bad one first time round that went right in to my bottom.
Not a single rip with my second child, thank god!

Professional horse rider, ride up to 5 horses a day - 2 births, one sloooow and delivered on bed, one fast delivered I water., First baby 7.13lb, second 8.10lbs,

Very small first degree tear with first that re-tore with second, no stitches needed.

And physically I'm small - size 8 with a narrow pelvis. I think you just can't tell although I did drink a lot of raspberry leaf tea and do perinieal massage with both. I think I am very lucky.

Thanks for all the insight folks, I rally appreciate it. I would love to have a water birth but I've been lead to believe it will only happen if I'm ready to go in my booked in slot, which is probably unlikely :(

I had a induction and monitored labour. Dd born with one arm up (superman style) and I had a small tear with a few stitches but had no issues with it and it healed nicely.
Just wanted to give you reassurance that even if you are unfortunate and tear it might not be that bad.

If it helps, DD's head was on the 98th percentile. I had a second degree tear and episiotomy. Two months on I felt pretty much back to normal. Seven months on I feel no different to before I was pregnant.

Even if you do tear it isn't the end of the world.

eastpregnant
Or things are more complicated than tearing/not tearing.
Some tears (3d and 4th degree - around 5% of births) are serious injuries. Luckily some women make full recovery.
Sadly others don't and end up with urinary and/or faecal incontinence, pelvic organ prolapse, sexual dysfunction and/or the inability to do high impact sport (ie run).
Yes, it only affects a small proportion of women who give birth but let's not make tearing a trivial issue. In some cases the consequences of tearing are devastating.

pinguina ok, fair enough. How's this instead?

"even if you do tear, it isn't necessarily the end of the world, and certainly wasn't for me"

That allowed?

Or are we only allowed to present the (already terrified) OP with worst case scenarios?