More on Health Visitors

[Bisonex]

Any day now I will be a grandfather for the first time - my daughter-in-law was due yesterday but no signs of labour yet.

I have noticed a dew discussions on here about health visitors. Having attended child abuse case conferences in a professional capacity I would advise anyone strongly against admitting a HV to their homes. My eldest daughter, now a doctor in paediatrics, shares my view on this.

HVs are far more concerned with carrying out surveillance on mothers and babies than giving any practical help or advice. They keep detailed records not just about the child, but they make assessments of the mother and father - their perceived competence as parents etc, the cleanliness of the home and anything else that catches their interest. If you try to see these records, they will obstruct you every step of the way. My son and D-i-L are clear that they will not be admitting the HV, or allowing her to see the baby - only the GP will be allowed to perform any checks.

I have seen suggestions that admitting HVs is compulsory. That's absolute nonsense - it isn't. A refusal to admit a HV will be noted - obviously - but that's all. Without plenty of other evidence, denied access would not be anywhere near enough to warrant interest from social services, let alone give them any powers. We had three children of our own and no HV ever crossed the threshold, nor were they allowed any access to our children. Once they realised we weren't going to change our minds, they left us lone.

Basically, if you let them in, they will open a file on you and it will contain a whole lot of stuff you will never see, yet which could be used against you should they ever wish to do so.

[fifi25]

i meant i wasn't referred to HS.

[atomicdust]

Thank you Mamatomany; I'm kind of wondering whether not to choose the same path as you...plus quite horrified at the amount of tax-payer money wasted!

[Longtalljosie]

atomicdust - I didn't mention you at all, I was talking about the OP from this thread. The CCTV and MI5 comments were his.

[mamatomany]

I was quite upset by the whole thing atom I wanted to be of assistance to the community and felt I'd actually be doing a great disservice to either a family if I got it wrong or a child if I got it wrong, members of the public with 6 weeks training shouldn't be in that position.

[nunnie]

I have a couple of points.
My Dad was a police officer and never mentioned this to me when either me or my sister were expecting, how selfish of him.
My mother in law is a social worker manager of 30 year and again has never mentioned any of the above, surely she would know all this is her professional capacity?

As for clients and patients, I have worked in a dental suregery where people were called clients not patients. I have also worked in a forensic psychiatric hospital and they were also known as clients.

So your theory about clients and patients is untrue. To be honest I don't think many places apart from hospitals maybe that use patient and not client.

I have had a HV in my home with my last two and will be happy to open my door to her for my next one.

[nunnie]

excuse my spelling I was trying and obviously failing to do two things at once.

[fifi25]

I dont think people batted an eyelid in the 70's, 80's even the 90's. I broke my arm 3 times within 18mtnhs. 1st on a skiddy patch, 2nd parachutes with my coat and tripped on a hole and 3rd playing a game at school. No one questioned my man and she rightly wasnt refered to SS's.

[fifi25]

I am not saying people shouldnt bat an eyelid, they should be investigated but not treat as guilty without the facts being known.

[mamatomany]

they should be investigated but not treat as guilty

Why should they be investigated ? The amount of people that break their children's bones on purpose so high that investigations for all are justified ?
The problem I have with this kind of thing is that in the reports it wouldn't say fifi broke her arm once at school, twice at home it would say fifi has had three broken bones.

[MrsJamesMartin]

Thank goodness this man no longer resides in the UK, his paranoia and venom are something that we can do without.

Theres no reason to be so prickly, if all is well and there is nothing to hide.

You have a right to your privacy but that is no longer your right if your children are at
risk , statutory legislation states this ( but of course you will know that as your daughter is an SHO and you've had dealing at conferences in your "professional capacity").

Of course you don't have to see a HV, but do not expect anything from your GP because it will not happen. They will immunise of course as that a source of income, otherwise you'll be told to "contact your HV".IF you believe otherwise then you are more deluded than you appear.

FFS deliberately inflammatory thread .

[nunnie]

I am also confused, surely if in your "professional capacity" you worked closely on cases which involved child abuse. Why would this be your advice? As if (and I am saying if, as I only have your word no proof, and from a faceless person on the internet who could tell me they were Tom Cruise and I wouldn't be able to provide evidence that they weren't, so I would go with gut instinct), this information you claim is infact true then surely this is a good thing for the protection of children no?

[PacificDogwood]

Oh, FFS!!

Everybody get a grip.

The OP was rather patronising in tone, poorly informed and made sweeping generalisations of the worst order.

I am sorry to hear those of you who had bad and appalling experiences with HVs. And I can understand that you'd be very wary ever letting another HV into your life/house.

However, like in every other profession there are good and bad and indifferent and phantastic and insane HVs. You do not have to see any of them. How clean your house is has nothing to do with what they think about you. How well you or your child is dressed has nothing to do with anything.

You all do realise that bisonex lives in Sweden and has only posted on one other thread apart from this one??

V v odd. And misguided.

[PacificDogwood]

Oh, yes, and police officers have never ever been heavy handed, misguided or plain wrong, have they??

[Crystylline]

so...

the OP has never let a HV into his home to work with his family, but on the basis that he claims to have been involved in CP cases where a HV's records may have been needed/useful to examine and understand a case better more than 25 years ago, he feels that all HVs are nasty little spies with no interest in supporting or helping new parents??

yeah, right!

I'm sure that the OP doesn't need me to point out that if a case ends up involving the police and multi-service agencies; it probably means there are causes for concern and that they should be addressed or looked into.

If a HV's notes are the most catastrophic thing written about a mother/father, then it's a peculiar point of view that the OP is taking.

Every one of the professionals involved in a CP case would visit/work with and take notes from the police officer attending a call to the home, to the school/nursery, to the social worker appointed if necessary.

so, why pick on HVs?

As others have said, yes some people do have issues with incompetent HVs, but haven't all of us met someone in a professional capacity who we've found incompetent?

I can't believe I'm replying to this obvious trollery, but I'm really angry/concerned that anyone who naievely takes his post as truthful could be at best missing out on a useful service and at worst, putting themselves in a unecessary and potentially damaging position.

Surely the more reasonable advice the OP could have given would be: If you see a HV and you don't like them or have any concerns, talk to them or their superiors about it, rather than blocking their access to your home.

[mueslimuncher]

I agree with you OP.

[WidowWadman]

I wonder whether the OP actually wears a fashionable tinfoil hat and whether he has to take it off when in his professional capacity.

[Longtalljosie]

Widow - he was a copper some time ago, probably used it to line his helmet

[lisad123isasnuttyasaboxoffrogs]

omg, you really need to calm down. HV do make notes, they have to, its their job! and secondly they dont tend to go out to families unless they need to, in otherwords they have a concern or have been asked to go. They havent got time to see everyone and I havent seen one in 2years!

If you dont want to see one, then dont but dont spout off all this crap, now some poor mother who is having hard time is less likely to call HV when she is struggling if she believes you, and that is helpful how?? Are you going to come over and give BF advice, see the signs of PND and offer a support line? NO, so bugger off your soap box and stop spouting unhelpful claptrap

[lisad123isasnuttyasaboxoffrogs]

and I spent many years working with HV and SS and I can say, I have been very grateful for the supportive HV who have caught cases earlier than anyone else could have and saved a poor child abuse and neglect.

[Thistledew]

Don't listen to anything the OP is saying. Everyone knows that all police officers think that everyone is a criminal and should be treated as being guilty until proven innocent.

(Or am I over-generalising?)

[fifi25]

Lisa, can i ask you something as i am curious about it, please dont jump on me. Have you ever known of HV's refer a family and they have been wrong about them. This is what happened to me and it was a very worrying time. Although i knew i had done no wrong the worry was how do i prove etc. Ive said in my previous post i have had 2 HV's who were great with the 1st and 3rd, but 2nd seems to have a bad reputation for being extremely critical. A mum at the school also told me of a friend of a friend in another part of the country whos daughter was playing with a ball. She slipped on the top of the ball fell onto wood flooring and broke her leg. The docs at the hospital said she could not have sustained her injury from this. They were passed to social services. Their case ended up going to court and they paid for an independant medical report or something from 3 doctors saying that it was likely that the break could have been caused by this. Obviously i got told this whilst my daughter was being refered to SS's so i was ill ith worry.

[NonnoMum]

OP - I'm slightly concerned about how relevant your advice will be when your daughter-in-law produces your DG.

One of the reasons that I valued the advice from my HV was that she was aware of the latest research which informs parenting advice these days.

My mother is a wonderful and doting grandmother, but if she gave me advice from her generation it would be this

• you don't need a car seat, just carry the baby on the lap in your car... (um, isn't that illegal now, mum??)
  

• after giving birth, what you will need is a nice cup of tea and a cigarette (said to my auntie after her home birth 45 years ago)
  

• lay the baby on its front
  

• a few days of breastfeeding is fine, then a bottle of cows milk will go down a storm
  

• if the baby cries, leave it at the bottom of the garden in its pram with a cat net over it (were cats more predatory in t'olden days??)
  

-wean at 3 months, or a bit earlier if the baby isn't sleeping through the night

• oh, and don't worry about getting up to let the community midwife in, you will have the luxury of a two week spell in hospital.
  

So, can I just give a big HOORAY for all the well-infomred HVs out there who can help put over-bearing (and sometimes patronising and paranoid) grandparents in their place?

[lisad123isasnuttyasaboxoffrogs]

of course I wont jump on you :)
I haven't known any HV to refer for wrong reason, but know ones who are a little over zealous in their actions but normally ss are pretty good at sorting this out.
As for friend, ss would have had to have a doctor say the break was non acciental for them to have taken it to court, so either your friend wasnt honest with you or doctor wasnt with them.
If you want to PM me any questions feel free, most people here know me if that helps.

[fifi25]

I was just curious, thankfully ss were lovely. I think people have a fear of them but i felt much more reassured after speaking to them. As i pointed out the other 2 HV's are great. Unfortunatly the one for my 3rd daughter left the practice and they have put me back on 2nd daughters HV's list. I dont have to see her though as i have the no for my 1st daughters HV and i speak to her if i have any concerns. Obviously now i worry about my 3rd daughter having an accident and i have to take her to hospital. Thanks and goodnight im off to bed.

[fifi25]

i meant people have a fear os ss.