"Novel Oils in Infant Formula and Organic Foods: Safe and Valuable Functional Food or Risky Marketing Gimmick?"

[hunkermunker]

I think it's been posted before but I reckon it's worth posting again.

This is the executive summary - I can post a link to the full report too, if anyone's interested.

[PussinJimmyChoos]

[Aitch]

well the reason i find it interesting is that i gave dd aptamil first for 12 mos because of the sodding fish oil, and learning more about the ingredients has made me realise that it was also likely responsible for the fact that her stools were 'like bf poo' for that whole time.

now, i found that terribly seductive in those early days, of course i did, because they were playing into the fact that i wanted to bf.

had i followed the manufacturers' advice to move onto 2nd stage milk at 6 months, which has no oil in it, no doubt her poos would have solidified like her bf counterparts when weaning was introduced.

so i dunno, i think i might have basically given dd the runs for the first year of her life, in order to sustain the illusion that i was still bfing. and i don't think i would use aptamil again cos i feel a bit conned by them.

[sabire]

"I know it sounds mad but am doing my research now as I really want to make b/feeding work for me 2nd time around and I think being prepared will help"

Not 'mad' at all. Good for you! Now is a good time to think about it.

"-how can you b/feed safely in bed without a risk of SIDS? What happens if you are b/feeding the baby but you are so tired you fall asleep - isn't that a risk as well? Am rather confused...>"

The rules:
Probably best to try not to fall asleep with your baby in your bed if you are catastrophically tired (ie had less than 4 hours sleep in the previous 24 hours) or might otherwise be difficult to rouse - drunk, or drugged

Don't take your baby into bed if you or your partner smoke.

Dress your baby lightly if he or she is in bed with you. Don't let them overheat.

Get rid of your pillow and replace it with a cushion which is less likely to travel over baby's face.

Get rid of duvet and replace with sheets and blankets, or tuck duvet under you and put baby next to you on bed covered by cot blanket so doesn't overheat. Wear a warm top yourself if weather is cold so you don't draw blankets or quilt up to your shoulders - this will cover baby and make them overheat. Keep blankets or quilt tucked well under bottom of bed so they can't travel up too high.

Put something on side of bed to stop baby rolling off. Or use bedside cot (preferred option for me)

Usually lie on side to feed baby - baby next to you on mattress. Tuck baby's body well into your body to help them latch on and be comfortable.

These are the rules I followed and it more or less covers everything in the UNICEF safe sleeping leaflet.

[sabire]

Meant to say - if you do all these things your baby is unlikely to come to harm if they fall asleep in your bed. Worth remembering that in bf your baby you are helping protect them from SIDS.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Ditto what sabire said on co-sleeping and feeding. THe fact I could go back to sleep while I fed was one of the absolute best things about bf (apart from the nutritional ones obv). Oh and not having to get up and warm bottles.

[PussinJimmyChoos]

I thought of putting DH into the spare room and he can get up to see to DS if he stirs and I'll put the moses basket next to me in the bed so that the baby has a safe sleeping environment/less risk of me rolling over etc and then when baby needs a feed, its just a case of picking it out...the bed is a king size so enough room for the basket and I would have a single duvet so as not to risk it accidentally going over the baby....I'm not even TTC yet (awaiting results from smear before going ahead!) but can't stop thinking about it all

[hazeyjane]

Ending up f'feeding both my dd's has made me want to find out more about what is in formula, and obviously it is not easy reading, and as has been pointed out decoding the ingredients list, doesn't provide a non scientifically brained person with many answers.

When dd2 came along, and bfeeding went wrong again, I went with Aptamil, (because that is what I gave dd1), but they had since added prebiotics, which I think caused her to have heinous diarrhoea for a few weeks (very similar sounding to the description in the article), The GP and HV's both said it was nothing to do with formula and runny poo is normal. I switched her over to Hipp Organic, and the poos were a lot less explosive (although who know's what a f'fed healthy poo is like?).

It is frustrating that there isn't an independent body that looks into the best, healthiest way to produce and research formula.

Hunkermunker, what are the best steps to campaign for a review into the ways that formula is produced?

[hazeyjane]

[hunkermunker]

HJ, you could look at becoming a member of www.babymilkaction.org for one. Mike Brady does a fantastic job, imo.

Puss, Sabire's been pretty thorough with her cosleeping info! I'm going to put some stuff on my blog on this subject when I get a mo too.

Aitch, I'd have done the same, I'm pretty sure - thinking back to when DS1 was little. I heard a LOT of "Aptamil's the best, you know" from peers and HVs at that time. And, after all, Aptamil's marketed at women like you and me, isn't it? You may well have found, like many mums do, that follow-on made your DD painfully constipated, so don't worry about not giving it to her.

[BroccoliSpears]

V interesting artical. V interesting thread.

People ought to know and care.

Trouble is, if this is interesting to you it's probably because you have children, and if you have children you have probably given them formula so you prefer to stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la (and you have children - spare time and energy to Do Something About It is not abundant). As an exclusive bfer, it's not something that I could feel comfortable bringing up with any of my friends who ff or mix feed. I would feel preachy and judgy.

[Aitch]

i remember a young doctor whose wife had just had their first child telling me that he thought that the formulas were all much of a muchness, that no-one really knows what's in them and that i was best to get one that was available in a nearby shop.

ho ho, i though, you fool, everyone knows that aptamil's the best, and so that is wot i bought.

[hunkermunker]

And that, BS, suits the formula manufacturers very well indeed - which is the disgrace of it all. They need women not to talk about it. It's a bit like the emperor's new clothes, I think.

Aitch, I harboured similar thoughts when DS1 was little, simply because of the bullshit stuff I heard from HVs, etc - which is why I went ballistic when I heard the community midwives were still saying it and Did Something About It recently.

[Aitch]

good for you. to be fair to the young doc, his advice was bang on, it's just that actually i really didn't want to hear it. i wanted to pay more, i wanted to be conned. der.

[hunkermunker]

Aitch, I understand - it's why Aptamil is so successful - and one of the most cynical things on the market. Women who want to breastfeed want to give their baby the next best thing if it transpires they aren't able to give them breastmilk. And instead of the formula manufacturers pooling their research and information (ha!), in order to make an infant formula that is actually as good as possible, they compete with meaningless bullshit slogans and made up ingredients [immunofortis] and don't actually do much for the babies, but their shareholders are happy...

Shit, isn't it? It's the women and the babies who suffer - and it's quite often women who've had no choice in the matter and feel awful about it who are the ones perpetuating it by beseeching people not to talk about it all. Sorry state of affairs all round, really

[Olihan]

Isn't aptimil thought to be the best by hvs/hcps because it is so intensively promoted to them? I know my hv had aptimil post it notes and pens, even that string thing her ID badge was on, which were obviously freebies from Milupa. But it's almost a kind of product placement tactic too, isn't it? It's late and I can't think of the word I want but I wonder if it's a subtle way of implanting the brand into women's sub-conscious, on top of the recommendation of the hcps. [paranoid conspiracy theorist]

[tiktok]

Olihan, not paranoia at all. Of course it's product placement - they don't give the free pens and postit notes and name tag holders to the guys at Kwikfit, do they ?

[Aitch]

i thought they weren't allowed to accept that crap? is that not right? am shocked. and oblivious, obv.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Fascinating stuff. Will read more thoroughly tomorrow.

Hunker, you are a star.

I'd quite like to

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

find out what a 'normal' poo for a f/fed baby should be like.

[thumbwitch]

Aitch - it's a v.fine line with promotional stuff as to what is acceptable and what isn't and it's something that has been looked into recently in terms of doctors and their prescribing habits. As someone who had several friends who were pharmaceutical reps, I know that they always had this stuff to hand out, regardless of whether or not the GP decided to go with their drug(s) - it is subliminal marketing (is that the word you were after Olihan?).

Formula companies are no worse really than any other food manufacturer - they are ultimately only interested in gaining maximum market share for their product, regardless of what the effect is on health of the consumer. They of course take note of the prevailing trends in eating habits and health concerns and then produce something that looks like it fits into that niche - but mostly it is just lip-service.

In terms of these novel "oils", really fatty acids - the report states that they are not bio-identical to those we porduce ourselves or would get from the food we eat. To me this suggests that they are likely to fall into a similar category as trans fats, the recently outed nasties that come from hydrogenating fats, which will mean that our bodies' digestive system will have trouble identifying and dealing with them. The explosive, stinky diarrhoea suggests malabsorption of fat, i.e. these novel fatty acids are not being absorbed, nor are they being utilised by the gut bacteria, they are just passing through and therefore are an unnecessary and probably expensive addition.

Pussinjimmychoos - i bf DS in my bed for 5 months and the way i prevented myself from ever rolling onto him was to have my arm out above his head - I couldn't have rolled onto him without dislocating my shoulder. I don't move much when I sleep so this worked for me - if you are a fidgeter, it might not be so good.

[thumbwitch]

Forgot to thank Hunkermunker for posting this thread - v.interesting, didn't know about these novel oils in ff before.

[Olihan]

Subliminal, that's the one, Thumbwitch, thank you!

I find it a bit worrying really, that many hcps are so easily swayed by marketing and promotional hype, not just of formula but other medications. My stepdad is on blood pressure meds and when my aunt who is a practice nurse found out what he was on, she told him he ought to be on a different drug that was much more effective. SD brought it up with his GP who said that the drug aunt was talking about was newer and being very heavily marketed to surgeries but clinical trials showed that it was no more effective than any other bp meds. Are there really no clear laws on this type of marketing?

Aitch's GP had the right idea, when I had to give ds1 formula at 10 days old because I'd had a radioactive scan (Tiktok, I'd love to know if it really was necessary to give formula because of the scan or if I could have bf, because I think that was the beginning of the end of bfing for ds1), the mws on the PN ward said they couldn't recommend a particular one, none were 'better' but SMA tended to make babies sickier if they were that way inclined, ihe. I went with Cow & Gate because I liked the label (wtf? ) then got home and discovered that our local Tesco didn't stock it, but was totally sucked in by the whole 'don't switch formulas without getting advice from your hv' thin on the tub. As a first time mum (and non-MNer) I had no idea that it was, of course, rubbish.

Bringing studies like this one and raising awareness of the immoral marketing practices of the formula companies is so important. It would be great if women were able to make an informed choice aboout the milk they give their babies.

Of course, it would be even better if the bf suppport was improved so far fewer women needed to give formula - if those (is it) 90% of women who give up bfing but don't want to had the right advice to keep them bfing then that would surely dent the profits of the formula companies.

But the formula companies have the big money, the government would rather spend money on useless 'Breast is Best' campaigns rather than bf support, not to mention turning a blind eye to the questionable practices of the formula companies, so it's left to a few committed women on the web to try and change things.

It doesn't say much about our society, does it?

[InTheDollshouse]

Are there not regulations about what can go in formula?

[tiktok]

drama - there are indeed regulations about what can go into formula, but they look at the proportions of fat, carbs, water and so on, rather than whether novel ingredients can go in them or not. The authorities have to be assured that the novel ingredients do not affect growth, that there is no evidence of detrimental effects, and this level of assurance differs in different countries. There are plenty of experts who think the full safety and efficacy of these novel ingredients has yet to be shown.

The UK and other countries have accepted the novel ingredients described in Hunker's link, but the US was more difficult to be persuaded (IIRC) and AFAIK Aus and NZ are still saying no. There was intense lobbying in the US - think of the size of the market they have to crack - and I remember the hoo-hah from a few years ago. The manufacturers have enormous power over politicians (this is Big Pharma, remember) and the manufacturers of the novel ingredients and the formula manufacturers themselves were a formidable force.

[tiktok]

Aitch - you ask if healthcare workers can accept the tat given to them with formula branding on them. This would not be permitted in a Baby Friendly hospital, but it is perfectly legal for it to happen, and hospitals which are not Baby Friendly may have no rules at all about it.

How on earth can a healthcare worker support a mother with her breastfeeding, when she is writing in a diary with a formula logo on it, with a formula pen? These things matter. It's a question of trust.