Please can someone help - breastfeeding is going so badly and I feel awful!

[lavenderchocolate]

Hi, apologies for rather desperate post on Christmas night but hoping someone might be around who can help.

I had my baby nine days ago by emergency section and breastfeeding has never really happened. Various midwives tried to help in hospital but I could only get him latched on with a lot of help and then he couldn’t maintain it. We were discharged 6 days ago and then when the midwife came to visit when he was 4 days he had dropped 12% of his birth weight and a feeding plan was decided on.

He now has a new feeding plan as he just isn’t gaining but I’m really concerned. This plan involves me trying to breastfeed him. Then giving him whatever I’ve managed to express. Then OH gives him whatever I haven’t given him in expressed breast milk in formula, so if he’s had 30 ml breast milk he has 60 ml formula.

It’s exhausting for all of us. This morning baby was beyond exhausted and wouldn’t latch on to my breast at all. I feel like I’m never going to produce milk at this rate and I’m being pushed towards formula feeding and it isn’t what I want. He can breastfeed but only with nipple shields which aren’t ideal. He’s had a tongue tie cut and as I’ve said I’m expressing milk and using nipple shields ... I honestly don’t know what else to do or where we go from here.

[Puddlelane123]

Hope that didnt sound like I was barking questions at you by the way!

[Dramacoats]

Can you do loads of skin to skin. And by loads I mean spend the next couple of days largely in bed with baby on your chest so lots of skin to skin Contact. Feed as often as you can, 4 hrs is too long for a tiny baby and it makes feeding harder.

[cansu]

Consider why this desire to breastfeed is colouring this special time with your new born?
Use some fomula, cuddle up with your baby, We are talking about food. You can give him food, it might not be breastmilk, but it is food and will be fine.

[SouthBucksMum]

It sounds like you are doing an excellent job. With my DD she was combination fed for the first 4 weeks due to jaundice (as we were advised to use formula top ups). I can remember so clearly my despair and frustration every time I struggled to breastfeed her, and feeling like I was always either trying to latch her, preparing formula or expressing. It was relentless, and so I complete understand how you are feeling. If you do feel that you want to persevere with breastfeeding then I would say you are doing all the right things. Like another poster said it is very possible to revert to ebf after combination feeding. I'm not saying it is easy and I do think maternal mental health is a crucial factor in any decision. After 4 weeks of combination feeding with my DD I started to phase out one formula feed at a time. This involved a lot of skin to skin, cluster feeding, side-lying feeds or biological nurturing and pumping to increase supply. It was exhausting but we did manage to get back to ebf after a couple of difficult weeks and I went on to breastfeed her until she was 17 months. I would say continue with the nipple shields, try to get all the help you can with latch and position and keep offering the breast whenever you think both you and the baby are receptive, even if you don't think the baby is necessarily due a feed.

[Nevanna]

12% is a normal weight loss for a breastfed baby. It’s more than a formula fed baby would lose so midwives with little experience of breastfeeding often panic unnecessarily. Also if you’re only feeding every 4hrs that’s too little. A breastfed baby isn’t like a formula fed baby that only feeds every 4hrs - they feed pretty much constantly, off and on the breast all the time. That’s what stimulates your milk production. If you’re only attempting to feed every 4hrs you’ll never have any milk.

[Sunflowerpower89]

So sorry things are so tough OP- but you’re doing an amazing job. I see you said your nipples seem flat? I had this issue with my first, might sound daft but I used to sort of pinch it out before I got DD to latch on and then used the flipple technique to get her on. I found the issue resolved when her mouth was bigger but those first few weeks were tough.

[Mmr224]

My little girl had similar issues and I have large boobs and flat nipples. I found the NUK silicone nipple sheikds from Amazon we're excellent, she could latch easily 90% of the time with them once she but used to them and we managed to transition off them around 3 months. It was so hard for the first 3 weeks but got much better.

[lavenderchocolate]

Again thank you everyone

abersinas but then when he’s fast asleep he won’t go on the breast.

pollo I just want to breastfeed, I don’t mind what others do with their babies. But if I can I want to.

bored he will sleep for up to six hours without asking for a feed (only in the morning though!)

Thanks mumof and sprouts, nappies are fine now. But they weren’t before.

[Hollybutnoivy]

Gosh this thread is so making me wish I'd discovered mumsnet 16 years ago. Such good advice. I was a bit like you OP as I never got the latching sorted out but I couldn't find anyone to help reluctantly went to formula. Ff is fine of course but it really sounds that you just need someone to help. Hope you do but you have my sympathy too. It is miserable when it's not working.

[lavenderchocolate]

puddles no jaundice, he’s a lovely pink colour like a little rose which goes to bright alarming red when we don’t jump to his commands quickly though!

The problem is if I followed his routine it would be sleep until 2 in the afternoon then wake fractious and unable to latch onto the breast at all!

The feeding plan involves three hourly feeds. Breast feed or try to. Then give him what I expressed (usually 30 mls) then top up to 90 mls with formula.

The midwives are very supportive with breastfeeding.

[RockCrushesLizard]

Op this sounds really rough. I can hear that you want to make it work, but you are exhausted by the triple feeding.

Please please call the National Breastfeeding Helpline 0300 100 0212
The women on the line all have in-depth knowledge of breastfeeding issues, but won't boss you - they'll help you talk through what's happened so far and make a plan for the future. We can say all sorts here, but we don't have all the bits of info to give a full picture.

What I will say is as long as you keep the baby fed and keep your milk supply flowing, you buy yourself time to learn to do the rest, and many, many women have been in your position and gone on to exclusively breastfeed if that was their goal, or combo feed if they prefer (it doesn't have to be all or nothing).
Hugs to you, and congratulations on your little one.

[RockCrushesLizard]

Just to add, the lines are open until 9:30pm every day, including today

[NanooCov]

If the shields are working for you, carry on with them and deal with them later when feeding more established and baby stronger and needing less support to get a good latch. My first son had trouble latching (we didn't have an ideal start to feeding as he was in SCBU for 12 days and nil by mouth, only being "fed" through TPN) and due to a combination of small mouth and my big boobs (with flattish nipples), shields were our only option. Possibly a missed tongue tie in hindsight too (second son had a tongue tie which was found immediately - different health care practitioners). But then we ditched the shields after 2 months and he carried on feeding until he was 2 years 3 months.
Try different positions if possible, though I understand this will be trickier if you're still healing from your section.
Both of my boys were lazy feeders when little and I often had to strip them down to their nappy to get them a bit more awake - resulting skin to skin was always helpful though.

[EauDeMilk]

Hi OP, I haven't rtft so apologies if I'm repeating.
I had a similar experience as you re the timed feeds, the top up feeding plan etc.
We were in hospital for 6 days and once I came home I just snuggled in bed with him skin to skin and fed him whenever he seemed remotely interested.
He cluster fed for hours most nights for the first few weeks, which was exhausting but the overnight feeds establish supply for the next day so are vital.
My DS is 3 months old now and is thriving. He still feeds 2-3 hourly but he is much more efficient at latching and emptying the breast so the night feeds are far quicker.
Also, even if you formula/ mixed feed, your baby will get huge comfort from lots of skin to skin and non-nutritive sucking.
Good luck and happy Christmas

[ItWorriesMeThisKindofThing]

Sometimes the initial tongue tie division isn’t quite as deep as it needs to be, which might be the case if he’s still struggling to latch without nipple shields - the lactation consultant should be offering follow up support so you can ask her to look again.

Also the technique of bottle feeding can make a difference at helping th baby switch between bottle and breast - look at “paced” feeding videos and try to feed very slowly with lots of pauses

[lavenderchocolate]

I think the issue is my nipples, to be honest - he just can’t seem to latch on successfully to them.

I have some slightly better nipple shields on the way but they won’t arrive until Sunday. I think the problem is they are knocker off easily if baby is fretful at the start of a feed.

[Keha]

Things I did in not dissimilar situation...

Stopped giving expressed milk. I still pumped regularly through the day to keep my supply, but I didn't get much and it felt like hassle sterilising, remembering what was expressed when etc. I just pumped whenever I had a quiet moment and chucked the 10ml or so I got! Just gave formula to top up.

This also meant I stopped having a really strict routine, which was easier mentally.

Did almost constant skin to skin.

Tried to BF pretty much whenever baby was awake. So this meant I was trying to BF every 1 to 2 hours. We gave formula only when she seemed quite unsettled after trying to BF.

I don't think I had such issues with my nipples. It was more a supply issue. But I basically sat topless with a blanket round me and baby sleeping on my boob all day and then anytime she stirred, tried to get her to latch on!

[minipie]

Silly question maybe but do you pinch your nipples before a feed to make them easier to latch to? I have one flat/slightly inverted nipple and had to do this every time for the first few weeks or maybe month or two.

Agree about calling the lactation consultant- she should come back and check if the tie was divided fully, maybe it has rehealed, maybe there was a posterior tie that was missed?

Your schedule of try to feed, express and feed BM, and then FF too sounds exhausting! I would drop one of those elements tbh.

[lavenderchocolate]

I think it might be over for us, he’s hysterical on the breast. Just beside himself. It’s wrong to do this to him. Thus poor baby’s first ten days have been filled with hunger and fear and I don’t think I will ever forgive myself for it.

[Tyranttoddler]

Hey don't worry. That's not it at all. Your love for him oozes from every post. His first 10 days have been filled with love. I don't really have any advice because at this stage I moved to formula too-and now I have a brilliant toddler and it doesnt matter, but it did matter so much to me for months of her life-don't do that to yourself. You're doing your best, you've not let anyone down.

[Sharkfinsoup]

I am sorry it is so tough. I remember those first days with a similar 12%weight loss but I am still successfully feeding my 20month. Our first 12 weeks had many evening of feed/cry/vomit/utter distress. The crying pre-feeding was pretty awful and we used to have to try and rock him to sleep to calm him enough to get him to latch on. So I wouldn’t necessarily assume it’s hunger and fear he is crying for - more a case of where am I/what is this noise/other overwhelming sensation. The screaming was definitely worse if I couldn’t get him to latch immediately (we had a tongue tie release a little later than you and things got a bit better but this took a while as he had to learn to feed again). I have no advice apart from be kind to yourself. Don’t put words in your babies head - they know you are doing your best and that it takes the two of you to make it work ... so cuddles, sing through the screaming and lots of skin to skin. Good luck.

[sproutsnbacon]

Don’t panic about the crying on the breast you won’t scar him for life! I spent the first 6 weeks poisoning mine by eating dairy and soya, she’s fine now.
You are both learning
The sleepier they are the harder to latch, so if they’ve had some formula and then in a bit before they’re hungry breast again. Lots of skin to skin, get them stripped down to the nappy and snuggled up.
It was for both mine like flicking a switch. SUnddenly they went from being force fed virtually to latching on and sucking away. It didn’t happen in the first fortnight but we had cracked it by week four. Formula top ups lasted a few more weeks until supply had increased sufficiently with my first and I tried keeping my second on one bottle a day for convenience.
It’s really tough but it does get easier

[JingleJohnsJulie]

Whoops, wrong thread sorry

[Hollywhiskey]

If he's knocking the nipple shields off you can stick them on with milk or nipple cream.
If he's really hysterical - honestly, that sounds normal to me, mine were. Are you doing paced bottle feeding? If not he might think your milk is coming more slowly. They have a growth spurt so they need to get your production up to match their new needs.
Can I recommend you follow Lucy Ruddle IBCLC on Facebook, there's a lot of tips on her page and she does online consults (definitely isn't the only one that does that). Or as others have said NCT helpline or breastfeeding network will give better advice than me xxx