Please can someone help - breastfeeding is going so badly and I feel awful!

[lavenderchocolate]

Hi, apologies for rather desperate post on Christmas night but hoping someone might be around who can help.

I had my baby nine days ago by emergency section and breastfeeding has never really happened. Various midwives tried to help in hospital but I could only get him latched on with a lot of help and then he couldn’t maintain it. We were discharged 6 days ago and then when the midwife came to visit when he was 4 days he had dropped 12% of his birth weight and a feeding plan was decided on.

He now has a new feeding plan as he just isn’t gaining but I’m really concerned. This plan involves me trying to breastfeed him. Then giving him whatever I’ve managed to express. Then OH gives him whatever I haven’t given him in expressed breast milk in formula, so if he’s had 30 ml breast milk he has 60 ml formula.

It’s exhausting for all of us. This morning baby was beyond exhausted and wouldn’t latch on to my breast at all. I feel like I’m never going to produce milk at this rate and I’m being pushed towards formula feeding and it isn’t what I want. He can breastfeed but only with nipple shields which aren’t ideal. He’s had a tongue tie cut and as I’ve said I’m expressing milk and using nipple shields ... I honestly don’t know what else to do or where we go from here.

[Buggysleeper]

Also your baby has already had loads of colostrum and milk, all the good stuff. It’s a great start

[Buggysleeper]

Really feel for you op, I had flat nipples and had to use nipple shields (unsuccessfully). I found it incredibly exhausting and made the decision to go to formula after a 5 day struggle. I was incredibly upset and was getting mastitis, and my baby was really upset. It’s totally up to you what you do, but the relief I felt when I finally decided was amazing despite crying an awful lot. I talked it through at length with a midwife who was lovely. A fed baby is a happy baby, and your mental health incredibly important. You have not failed if you chose to formula feed. Big hugs 🤗

[divafever99]

Hi op, I have been in exactly the same position twice, both times following a section, I can remember the distress and exhaustion of it all. I was so determined to breast feed dd1. Like you I tried everything, including breast shields but nothing worked. She ended up getting dehydrated on day 3 and being re-admitted to hospital. On arrival she was given a bottle and was so settled. I felt awful for months after that trying to preserve with breast feeding had caused her distress.
DD 2 was just the same, and I didn't want her to go through the same experience, so after a day of trying I gave her a bottle and expressed milk too. My supply was very low so she was mainly having formula. I managed this for 6 weeks, until the combination of expressing/sterilising got a bit much. Please be kind to yourself, although it does feel like it at the time bottle feeding isn't the end of the world. I have 2 very healthy dc.

[sproutsnbacon]

You’re feeding at the most important time in the night and some always fuss before getting on with feeding.
I used a Hakka on the otherside to collect the let down.
If you can just settle down in bed or on the sofa for a few days constant skin to skin. Get all your food and drink brought to you. Watch some box sets and snuggle and feed. You might be able be to stay for a week! Enjoy the rest and the bonding with your baby. Tits out constantly as the joke goes in our house! It probably will work but if it doesn’t you’ve had a lovely time concentrating on your baby.

[Mmr224]

If took a bit of practice, but definitely got better around 3-4 weeks when she was bit stronger. I ended up lying her on a pillow on my knee and feeding in bed

[lavenderchocolate]

You must be better at it than me. It takes all my concentration to keep him latched on.

[Mmr224]

I also found feeding and trying to pump on the other side at the same time got much more expressed. I also had issues keeping the nipple sheilds on when she was grumpy, but NUK were pretty good at staying on if wetted and I used to put my thumb on the edge at the start of a feed to keep them in place.

[lavenderchocolate]

I’d love to say he is breastfed with formula top ups but really it’s formula fed with breastfeed top ups. It is getting better but it makes me so sad when he cries when he should be in his happy place if you like.

[Restingpotato]

Its so tough but sounds like you're doing a fab job. I remember on day 5 calling the midwife led unit at 2am because I didn't know why my baby was so hysterical at 2am after being fed constantly, she was cluster feeding. Crying at the breast is hard for you but isn't necessarily a bad thing at this age, he might just be putting an order in for more milk later on. If he isn't feeding regularly its important to express to up your supply, a plentiful supply will help feeding through a poor latch. Im still feeding at 7m and have never had a perfect latch but have been lucky with a good milk supply.
A pp said they dumped the expressed milk but you could always combine it all and give a breastmilk bottle as a top up once a day and do formula top ups for the rest?
To keep the cleaning to a minimum you don't need to sterilise the pump after each session, keep it in the fridge and clean after morning, afternoon and night session. Good luck op!

[lavenderchocolate]

Thanks - Sorry for that ridiculously emotional message last night. I just feel so horrible when he cries when I try to feed him. He isn’t a crier really: he’s a lovely content little soul except when he can’t feed.

I just wish someone had suggested nipple shields in the first night in the hospital. He is now expecting a bottle, he’s just not used to having to ‘work’ for it.

He’s just had a breastfeed and is curled up on my chest, I’ll express some milk for him in a couple of minutes.

[Hollywhiskey]

If he's knocking the nipple shields off you can stick them on with milk or nipple cream.
If he's really hysterical - honestly, that sounds normal to me, mine were. Are you doing paced bottle feeding? If not he might think your milk is coming more slowly. They have a growth spurt so they need to get your production up to match their new needs.
Can I recommend you follow Lucy Ruddle IBCLC on Facebook, there's a lot of tips on her page and she does online consults (definitely isn't the only one that does that). Or as others have said NCT helpline or breastfeeding network will give better advice than me xxx

[JingleJohnsJulie]

Whoops, wrong thread sorry

[sproutsnbacon]

Don’t panic about the crying on the breast you won’t scar him for life! I spent the first 6 weeks poisoning mine by eating dairy and soya, she’s fine now.
You are both learning
The sleepier they are the harder to latch, so if they’ve had some formula and then in a bit before they’re hungry breast again. Lots of skin to skin, get them stripped down to the nappy and snuggled up.
It was for both mine like flicking a switch. SUnddenly they went from being force fed virtually to latching on and sucking away. It didn’t happen in the first fortnight but we had cracked it by week four. Formula top ups lasted a few more weeks until supply had increased sufficiently with my first and I tried keeping my second on one bottle a day for convenience.
It’s really tough but it does get easier

[Sharkfinsoup]

I am sorry it is so tough. I remember those first days with a similar 12%weight loss but I am still successfully feeding my 20month. Our first 12 weeks had many evening of feed/cry/vomit/utter distress. The crying pre-feeding was pretty awful and we used to have to try and rock him to sleep to calm him enough to get him to latch on. So I wouldn’t necessarily assume it’s hunger and fear he is crying for - more a case of where am I/what is this noise/other overwhelming sensation. The screaming was definitely worse if I couldn’t get him to latch immediately (we had a tongue tie release a little later than you and things got a bit better but this took a while as he had to learn to feed again). I have no advice apart from be kind to yourself. Don’t put words in your babies head - they know you are doing your best and that it takes the two of you to make it work ... so cuddles, sing through the screaming and lots of skin to skin. Good luck.

[Tyranttoddler]

Hey don't worry. That's not it at all. Your love for him oozes from every post. His first 10 days have been filled with love. I don't really have any advice because at this stage I moved to formula too-and now I have a brilliant toddler and it doesnt matter, but it did matter so much to me for months of her life-don't do that to yourself. You're doing your best, you've not let anyone down.

[lavenderchocolate]

I think it might be over for us, he’s hysterical on the breast. Just beside himself. It’s wrong to do this to him. Thus poor baby’s first ten days have been filled with hunger and fear and I don’t think I will ever forgive myself for it.

[minipie]

Silly question maybe but do you pinch your nipples before a feed to make them easier to latch to? I have one flat/slightly inverted nipple and had to do this every time for the first few weeks or maybe month or two.

Agree about calling the lactation consultant- she should come back and check if the tie was divided fully, maybe it has rehealed, maybe there was a posterior tie that was missed?

Your schedule of try to feed, express and feed BM, and then FF too sounds exhausting! I would drop one of those elements tbh.

[Keha]

Things I did in not dissimilar situation...

Stopped giving expressed milk. I still pumped regularly through the day to keep my supply, but I didn't get much and it felt like hassle sterilising, remembering what was expressed when etc. I just pumped whenever I had a quiet moment and chucked the 10ml or so I got! Just gave formula to top up.

This also meant I stopped having a really strict routine, which was easier mentally.

Did almost constant skin to skin.

Tried to BF pretty much whenever baby was awake. So this meant I was trying to BF every 1 to 2 hours. We gave formula only when she seemed quite unsettled after trying to BF.

I don't think I had such issues with my nipples. It was more a supply issue. But I basically sat topless with a blanket round me and baby sleeping on my boob all day and then anytime she stirred, tried to get her to latch on!

[lavenderchocolate]

I think the issue is my nipples, to be honest - he just can’t seem to latch on successfully to them.

I have some slightly better nipple shields on the way but they won’t arrive until Sunday. I think the problem is they are knocker off easily if baby is fretful at the start of a feed.

[ItWorriesMeThisKindofThing]

Sometimes the initial tongue tie division isn’t quite as deep as it needs to be, which might be the case if he’s still struggling to latch without nipple shields - the lactation consultant should be offering follow up support so you can ask her to look again.

Also the technique of bottle feeding can make a difference at helping th baby switch between bottle and breast - look at “paced” feeding videos and try to feed very slowly with lots of pauses

[EauDeMilk]

Hi OP, I haven't rtft so apologies if I'm repeating.
I had a similar experience as you re the timed feeds, the top up feeding plan etc.
We were in hospital for 6 days and once I came home I just snuggled in bed with him skin to skin and fed him whenever he seemed remotely interested.
He cluster fed for hours most nights for the first few weeks, which was exhausting but the overnight feeds establish supply for the next day so are vital.
My DS is 3 months old now and is thriving. He still feeds 2-3 hourly but he is much more efficient at latching and emptying the breast so the night feeds are far quicker.
Also, even if you formula/ mixed feed, your baby will get huge comfort from lots of skin to skin and non-nutritive sucking.
Good luck and happy Christmas

[NanooCov]

If the shields are working for you, carry on with them and deal with them later when feeding more established and baby stronger and needing less support to get a good latch. My first son had trouble latching (we didn't have an ideal start to feeding as he was in SCBU for 12 days and nil by mouth, only being "fed" through TPN) and due to a combination of small mouth and my big boobs (with flattish nipples), shields were our only option. Possibly a missed tongue tie in hindsight too (second son had a tongue tie which was found immediately - different health care practitioners). But then we ditched the shields after 2 months and he carried on feeding until he was 2 years 3 months.
Try different positions if possible, though I understand this will be trickier if you're still healing from your section.
Both of my boys were lazy feeders when little and I often had to strip them down to their nappy to get them a bit more awake - resulting skin to skin was always helpful though.

[RockCrushesLizard]

Just to add, the lines are open until 9:30pm every day, including today

[RockCrushesLizard]

Op this sounds really rough. I can hear that you want to make it work, but you are exhausted by the triple feeding.

Please please call the National Breastfeeding Helpline 0300 100 0212
The women on the line all have in-depth knowledge of breastfeeding issues, but won't boss you - they'll help you talk through what's happened so far and make a plan for the future. We can say all sorts here, but we don't have all the bits of info to give a full picture.

What I will say is as long as you keep the baby fed and keep your milk supply flowing, you buy yourself time to learn to do the rest, and many, many women have been in your position and gone on to exclusively breastfeed if that was their goal, or combo feed if they prefer (it doesn't have to be all or nothing).
Hugs to you, and congratulations on your little one.